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From: "Kevin Jepson" <kevijeps@telusplanet.net>
To: <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] MOO Database Browser
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:54:55 -0600
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Hi Folks
=20
Happy Canada Day!
=20
I just came across this page which is MOO DB browser.
=20
HYPERLINK
"http://neil.fraser.name/software/moobrowser/"http://neil.fraser.name/sof=
twa
re/moobrowser/
=20
This is pretty cool and allows looking inside a DB even if the MOO is =
not
running.
There are many potentially useful reasons to do this, like resurrecting =
data
from acorrupted DB or just looking at stuff in an old archive copy of a =
DB.
=20
From the Home page:
<Begin Quote>

Moo Database Browser


Tools for querying and exporting inactive Moo databases.

These applications allow one to easily extract information from a Moo
database which is not executing. For sporatic look-ups, they are more
efficient than booting up a live Moo and faster than loading the =
emergency
wizard mode. This is particularly useful when one has an archive of
historical databases, or if one is just looking for a verb that recently =
got
deleted.

<End Quote>
=20
This page also has documentation on the internals of the DB, very cool.
=20
Enjoy
Ciao
KJ

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Kevin Jepson R.E.T.
President
4K Consulting Inc.                   =20
An't nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.

PHONE: (403) 875-8372
Email: kevijeps@telusplanet.net
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 =20

=20

--=20
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006
=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1250">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>Hi=20
Folks</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>Happy =
Canada=20
Day!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>I just =
came across=20
this page which is MOO DB browser.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006><A=20
href=3D"http://neil.fraser.name/software/moobrowser/">http://neil.fraser.=
name/software/moobrowser/</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>This =
is pretty cool=20
and allows looking inside a DB even if the MOO is not=20
running.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>There =
are many=20
potentially useful reasons to do this, like resurrecting data from =
acorrupted DB=20
or just looking at stuff in an old archive copy of a =
DB.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>From =
the&nbsp;Home=20
page:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D480064821-01072006>&lt;Begin=20
Quote&gt;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>
<H1>Moo Database Browser</H1>
<P><I>Tools for querying and exporting inactive Moo databases.</I></P>
<P>These applications allow one to easily extract information from a Moo =

database which is not executing. For sporatic look-ups, they are more =
efficient=20
than booting up a live Moo and faster than loading the emergency wizard =
mode.=20
This is particularly useful when one has an archive of historical =
databases, or=20
if one is just looking for a verb that recently got=20
deleted.</P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D480064821-01072006>&lt;End=20
Quote&gt;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D480064821-01072006>This =
page also has=20
documentation on the internals of the DB, very cool.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006>Enjoy</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006>Ciao</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D480064821-01072006>KJ</SPAN></FONT></DIV><!-- Converted from =
text/plain format -->
<P><FONT =
size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Kevin=20
Jepson R.E.T.<BR>President<BR>4K Consulting=20
Inc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>An't=20
nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.<BR><BR>PHONE: (403) =
875-8372<BR>Email:=20
kevijeps@telusplanet.net<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR>&nbsp;=20
</FONT></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>

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From jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca  Thu Jul  6 09:07:36 2006
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Subject: [encore] Wait For an Action?
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From: "Jean-Marc Giffin" <jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca>
To: <encore@utdallas.edu>
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Hey all!

=20

Because of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that
expect you to give them items.

For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then
he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time
for you to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get
annoyed with you and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible
to do a "read(player)", but then (as far as I know) it would take away
from allowing the normal "give" command to take place, since it wouldn't
parse the string. I then thought of making a "fork" or "suspend", but if
the suspend was 10 seconds (for example), and I gave the coins after 2
seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the driver to respond. Is
there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of time for an
event, and as soon as it takes place, things continue?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date:
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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
all!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Because of the nature of how I am =
making
the MOO, I have bots that expect you to give them =
items.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For example, to take a carriage, =
you have
to talk to the driver and then he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it =
so that
he waits a bit of time for you to &#8220;give driver 2 pounds&#8221;, =
but if you take too
long, he&#8217;ll get annoyed with you and move on. I was thinking that =
it would be
possible to do a &#8220;read(player)&#8221;, but then (as far as I know) =
it would take away
from allowing the normal &#8220;give&#8221; command to take place, since =
it wouldn&#8217;t parse
the string. I then thought of making a &#8220;fork&#8221; or =
&#8220;suspend&#8221;, but if the suspend
was 10 seconds (for example), and I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I =
would
have to wait 8 seconds for the driver to respond. Is there a good way to =
make
the bot wait a certain amount of time for an event, and as soon as it =
takes place,
things continue?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>
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From alexborgia@hotmail.com  Thu Jul  6 09:44:23 2006
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From: "Alexandre Borgia" <alexborgia@hotmail.com>
To: <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:47:22 -0400
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Hi Jean-Marc,

=20

You could keep state information in a property on the driver.  For =
instance,
after you talk with the driver set something like "waiting_for_money" to =
1
and fork a process that will check this property again 10 seconds later. =
 In
the meanwhile, if the player decides to give him two pounds set the =
property
back to 0 and continue with your next actions.  When your forked process
responds back, make it first check if "waiting_for_money" is still set =
to 1
and if so make the driver react as if he had not received the money in =
time,
else exit the process without doing anything since the driver got the =
money
and everything is all right.

=20

Hope this helps!

-          Alex

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:06 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Wait For an Action?

=20

Hey all!

=20

Because of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that =
expect
you to give them items.

For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then =
he
asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time for =
you
to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get annoyed =
with
you and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a
"read(player)", but then (as far as I know) it would take away from =
allowing
the normal "give" command to take place, since it wouldn't parse the =
string.
I then thought of making a "fork" or "suspend", but if the suspend was =
10
seconds (for example), and I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would =
have to
wait 8 seconds for the driver to respond. Is there a good way to make =
the
bot wait a certain amount of time for an event, and as soon as it takes
place, things continue?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Jean-Marc,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You could keep =
state information
in a property on the driver. &nbsp;For instance, after you talk with the =
driver
set something like &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; to 1 and fork a =
process that
will check this property again 10 seconds later.&nbsp; In the meanwhile, =
if the
player decides to give him two pounds set the property back to 0 and =
continue
with your next actions.&nbsp; When your forked process responds back, =
make it first
check if &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; is still set to 1 and if so =
make the driver
react as if he had not received the money in time, else exit the process
without doing anything since the driver got the money and everything is =
all
right.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope this helps!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>-<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Alex</span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Jean-Marc Giffin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Thursday, July
 06, 2006</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>10:06 =
AM</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2
 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>encore@utdallas.edu</span><=
/font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Wait =
For an
Action?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
all!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Because of the =
nature of
how I am making the MOO, I have bots that expect you to give them =
items.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For example, to =
take a
carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then he asks for 2 pounds. =
I want
to make it so that he waits a bit of time for you to &#8220;give driver =
2
pounds&#8221;, but if you take too long, he&#8217;ll get annoyed with =
you and
move on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a
&#8220;read(player)&#8221;, but then (as far as I know) it would take =
away from
allowing the normal &#8220;give&#8221; command to take place, since it
wouldn&#8217;t parse the string. I then thought of making a =
&#8220;fork&#8221;
or &#8220;suspend&#8221;, but if the suspend was 10 seconds (for =
example), and
I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the =
driver
to respond. Is there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of =
time
for an event, and as soon as it takes place, things =
continue?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!</span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin</span></font></p>

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>
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From jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca  Thu Jul  6 11:47:06 2006
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Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
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Hey Alex,

=20

Thanks for the response. However, I have tried what you described, but
there's a problem. See, as soon as the "fork" is encountered, all
variables within it are what they are when the fork is called, not what
they will be once it is executed. So changing the value of
"waiting_for_money" after it's been done won't affect the fork at all.

The alternative that I've tried is to give the fork a task name, and
then kill that task once something is read in:

=20

fork complain (15)

            statements;

endfork

read =3D read(player);

kill_task(complain);

=20

This works fine, as long as the user answers before the fork is
executed. However, if the user answers after the fork is executed, then
it gives an "invalid argument" error, since that task is no longer
running.

I tried making it conditional, like this:

=20

complain =3D 0;

fork complain (15)

            complain =3D 0;

            statements;

endfork

read =3D read(player);

if (complain)

kill_task(complain);

endif

=20

However, whatever happens within the fork doesn't seem to affect the
outside, so this doesn't work either.

Is there a built-in command that would quickly check if "complain" is a
valid task? Something like:

=20

is_running(complain) ?

=20

Or any alternatives to what I have been trying?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin

=20

________________________________

From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Alexandre Borgia
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:47 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

=20

Hi Jean-Marc,

=20

You could keep state information in a property on the driver.  For
instance, after you talk with the driver set something like
"waiting_for_money" to 1 and fork a process that will check this
property again 10 seconds later.  In the meanwhile, if the player
decides to give him two pounds set the property back to 0 and continue
with your next actions.  When your forked process responds back, make it
first check if "waiting_for_money" is still set to 1 and if so make the
driver react as if he had not received the money in time, else exit the
process without doing anything since the driver got the money and
everything is all right.

=20

Hope this helps!

-          Alex

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:06 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Wait For an Action?

=20

Hey all!

=20

Because of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that
expect you to give them items.

For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then
he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time
for you to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get
annoyed with you and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible
to do a "read(player)", but then (as far as I know) it would take away
from allowing the normal "give" command to take place, since it wouldn't
parse the string. I then thought of making a "fork" or "suspend", but if
the suspend was 10 seconds (for example), and I gave the coins after 2
seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the driver to respond. Is
there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of time for an
event, and as soon as it takes place, things continue?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date:
30/06/2006



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style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
Alex,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the response. However, I =
have
tried what you described, but there&#8217;s a problem. See, as soon as =
the &#8220;fork&#8221;
is encountered, all variables within it are what they are when the fork =
is
called, not what they will be once it is executed. So changing the value =
of &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221;
after it&#8217;s been done won&#8217;t affect the fork at =
all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The alternative that I&#8217;ve =
tried is
to give the fork a task name, and then kill that task once something is =
read in:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fork complain =
(15)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; statements;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endfork<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>read =3D =
read(player);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>kill_task(complain);<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This works fine, as long as the =
user
answers before the fork is executed. However, if the user answers after =
the
fork is executed, then it gives an &#8220;invalid argument&#8221; error, =
since
that task is no longer running.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I tried making it conditional, like =
this:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>complain =3D =
0;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fork complain =
(15)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; complain =3D =
0;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; statements;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endfork<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>read =3D =
read(player);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>if =
(complain)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>kill_task(complai=
n);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endif<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, whatever happens within =
the fork
doesn&#8217;t seem to affect the outside, so this doesn&#8217;t work =
either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is there a built-in command that =
would
quickly check if &#8220;complain&#8221; is a valid task? Something =
like:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>is_running(complain) =
?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Or any alternatives to what I have =
been
trying?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Alexandre Borgia<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006
11:47 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Re: =
Wait For an
Action?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi =
Jean-Marc,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You could keep =
state
information in a property on the driver. &nbsp;For instance, after you =
talk
with the driver set something like &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; to 1 =
and
fork a process that will check this property again 10 seconds =
later.&nbsp; In
the meanwhile, if the player decides to give him two pounds set the =
property
back to 0 and continue with your next actions.&nbsp; When your forked =
process
responds back, make it first check if &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; is =
still
set to 1 and if so make the driver react as if he had not received the =
money in
time, else exit the process without doing anything since the driver got =
the
money and everything is all right.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope this =
helps!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>-</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;
color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Alex</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Jean-Marc Giffin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006
10:06 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Wait =
For an
Action?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
all!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Because of the =
nature of
how I am making the MOO, I have bots that expect you to give them =
items.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For example, to =
take a
carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then he asks for 2 pounds. =
I want
to make it so that he waits a bit of time for you to &#8220;give driver =
2
pounds&#8221;, but if you take too long, he&#8217;ll get annoyed with =
you and move
on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a
&#8220;read(player)&#8221;, but then (as far as I know) it would take =
away from
allowing the normal &#8220;give&#8221; command to take place, since it
wouldn&#8217;t parse the string. I then thought of making a =
&#8220;fork&#8221;
or &#8220;suspend&#8221;, but if the suspend was 10 seconds (for =
example), and
I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the =
driver
to respond. Is there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of =
time
for an event, and as soon as it takes place, things =
continue?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!</span></f=
ont><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006<BR>
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From jung@uib.no  Thu Jul  6 12:19:02 2006
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From: Daniel Jung <jung@uib.no>
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Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
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Jean-Marc Giffin wrote:

> For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then
> he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time
> for you to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get
> annoyed with you and move on. 


Like Alex said, the best solution would be to store the value "paid|not 
paid" into a property.

This code below is off the sleeve, NOT tested. It is a mere suggestion 
for structuring your verb.

You need three properties:

driver.received_money = 0;
driver.busy = 0;
driver.max_wait = 10;

********************************************************************
if (this.busy)
   player:tell("Please wait. There is another customer before you.");
else
   this.received_money = 0;
   player:tell("Please give me two pounds");
   fork()
     answer = read(player);
     if (match(answer, "give driver two pounds"))
       this.received_money = 1;
     endif
   endfork
   t = time();
   while (time() - t < this.max_wait && !this.received_money)
     suspend(1);
   endwhile
   if (this.received_money)
     player:tell("Thanks. The ride begins");
   else
     player:tell("I don't bother waiting any more. Bye.");
   endif
   this.received_money = this.busy = 0;
endif
********************************************************************


The clue is the while() clause which checks every second if the 
condition is met, and stops at a given maximum of seconds.

HTH
- Daniel



From jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca  Thu Jul  6 12:34:20 2006
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Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:32:58 -0300
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Thread-Topic: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Thread-Index: AcahIGTBGSzaJFvOSPGgkXceodF6wQAAVe4g
From: "Jean-Marc Giffin" <jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca>
To: "encore" <encore@utdallas.edu>
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Thanks for the reply, this method seems to run a lot more smoothly.
By the way, before I do a bunch of extra work, is there already an
implementation of a quantity item? By that I mean, the way the MOO is
set up is that a "shovel" is a shovel object, and a "cat" is a cat
object, but if I wanted to have a certain amount of money that I could
transfer to another player, or bot, is there a quantity item system
already set up to do that?

That way all that really changes is the amount that each player has...
the difficulty I'm facing is the parsing of giving, since it expects:

give thing to whoever

But we want:

give amount thing to whoever.

Any ideas? I have a few if I have to do it myself, but no need if it
already exists.

Thanks,

Jean-Marc Giffin


-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Daniel Jung
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:17 PM
To: encore
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

Jean-Marc Giffin wrote:

> For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and
then
> he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time
> for you to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get
> annoyed with you and move on.=20


Like Alex said, the best solution would be to store the value "paid|not=20
paid" into a property.

This code below is off the sleeve, NOT tested. It is a mere suggestion=20
for structuring your verb.

You need three properties:

driver.received_money =3D 0;
driver.busy =3D 0;
driver.max_wait =3D 10;

********************************************************************
if (this.busy)
   player:tell("Please wait. There is another customer before you.");
else
   this.received_money =3D 0;
   player:tell("Please give me two pounds");
   fork()
     answer =3D read(player);
     if (match(answer, "give driver two pounds"))
       this.received_money =3D 1;
     endif
   endfork
   t =3D time();
   while (time() - t < this.max_wait && !this.received_money)
     suspend(1);
   endwhile
   if (this.received_money)
     player:tell("Thanks. The ride begins");
   else
     player:tell("I don't bother waiting any more. Bye.");
   endif
   this.received_money =3D this.busy =3D 0;
endif
********************************************************************


The clue is the while() clause which checks every second if the=20
condition is met, and stops at a given maximum of seconds.

HTH
- Daniel




From alexborgia@hotmail.com  Thu Jul  6 12:36:04 2006
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From: "Alexandre Borgia" <alexborgia@hotmail.com>
To: <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:37:57 -0400
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Hi again,

=20

            Ops, maybe I didn't emphasize enough, but I meant
"waiting_for_money" to be a property on your object, not a local =
variable -
this way you'll be able to share the value between different tasks.  For
exemple, the code that triggers the wait could look like this:

=20

            this.waiting_for_money =3D 1;

=20

            suspend(15);

            if (this.waiting_for_money)

player has still not given the money - do something interesting!

            else

player has given the money - nothing to do here

end if

=20

=20

            . then create another verb that the player can use to give =
the
money.  This verb should set the "waiting_for_money" property to 0.

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 12:46 PM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

=20

Hey Alex,

=20

Thanks for the response. However, I have tried what you described, but
there's a problem. See, as soon as the "fork" is encountered, all =
variables
within it are what they are when the fork is called, not what they will =
be
once it is executed. So changing the value of "waiting_for_money" after =
it's
been done won't affect the fork at all.

The alternative that I've tried is to give the fork a task name, and =
then
kill that task once something is read in:

=20

fork complain (15)

            statements;

endfork

read =3D read(player);

kill_task(complain);

=20

This works fine, as long as the user answers before the fork is =
executed.
However, if the user answers after the fork is executed, then it gives =
an
"invalid argument" error, since that task is no longer running.

I tried making it conditional, like this:

=20

complain =3D 0;

fork complain (15)

            complain =3D 0;

            statements;

endfork

read =3D read(player);

if (complain)

kill_task(complain);

endif

=20

However, whatever happens within the fork doesn't seem to affect the
outside, so this doesn't work either.

Is there a built-in command that would quickly check if "complain" is a
valid task? Something like:

=20

is_running(complain) ?

=20

Or any alternatives to what I have been trying?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin

=20

  _____ =20

From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Alexandre Borgia
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:47 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

=20

Hi Jean-Marc,

=20

You could keep state information in a property on the driver.  For =
instance,
after you talk with the driver set something like "waiting_for_money" to =
1
and fork a process that will check this property again 10 seconds later. =
 In
the meanwhile, if the player decides to give him two pounds set the =
property
back to 0 and continue with your next actions.  When your forked process
responds back, make it first check if "waiting_for_money" is still set =
to 1
and if so make the driver react as if he had not received the money in =
time,
else exit the process without doing anything since the driver got the =
money
and everything is all right.

=20

Hope this helps!

-          Alex

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:06 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Wait For an Action?

=20

Hey all!

=20

Because of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that =
expect
you to give them items.

For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then =
he
asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time for =
you
to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get annoyed =
with
you and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a
"read(player)", but then (as far as I know) it would take away from =
allowing
the normal "give" command to take place, since it wouldn't parse the =
string.
I then thought of making a "fork" or "suspend", but if the suspend was =
10
seconds (for example), and I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would =
have to
wait 8 seconds for the driver to respond. Is there a good way to make =
the
bot wait a certain amount of time for an event, and as soon as it takes
place, things continue?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi again,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ops,
maybe I didn&#8217;t emphasize enough, but I meant =
&#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221;
to be a property on your object, not a local variable &#8211; this way =
you&#8217;ll
be able to share the value between different tasks.&nbsp; For exemple, =
the code
that triggers the wait could look like this:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this.waiting_for_money
=3D 1;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; suspend(15);</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; if
(this.waiting_for_money)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>player has still not given the money &#8211; do something
interesting!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; else</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>player has given the money &#8211; nothing to do =
here</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>end =
if</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#8230;
then create another verb that the player can use to give the =
money.&nbsp; This
verb should set the &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; property to =
0.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Jean-Marc Giffin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Thursday, July
 06, 2006</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>12:46 =
PM</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2
 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>encore@utdallas.edu</span><=
/font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Re: =
Wait For an
Action?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
Alex,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the =
response.
However, I have tried what you described, but there&#8217;s a problem. =
See, as
soon as the &#8220;fork&#8221; is encountered, all variables within it =
are what
they are when the fork is called, not what they will be once it is =
executed. So
changing the value of &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; after it&#8217;s =
been
done won&#8217;t affect the fork at all.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The alternative =
that
I&#8217;ve tried is to give the fork a task name, and then kill that =
task once
something is read in:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fork complain =
(15)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
statements;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endfork</span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>read =3D =
read(player);</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>kill_task(complai=
n);</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This works fine, =
as long
as the user answers before the fork is executed. However, if the user =
answers
after the fork is executed, then it gives an &#8220;invalid =
argument&#8221;
error, since that task is no longer running.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I tried making =
it
conditional, like this:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>complain =3D =
0;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fork complain =
(15)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
complain =3D 0;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
statements;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endfork</span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>read =3D =
read(player);</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>if =
(complain)</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>kill_task(complain);</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endif</span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, =
whatever happens
within the fork doesn&#8217;t seem to affect the outside, so this =
doesn&#8217;t
work either.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is there a =
built-in
command that would quickly check if &#8220;complain&#8221; is a valid =
task?
Something like:</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>is_running(compla=
in) ?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Or any =
alternatives to
what I have been trying?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!</span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Alexandre Borgia<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006
11:47 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Re: =
Wait For an
Action?</span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi =
Jean-Marc,</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>You could keep state information in a property on the =
driver.
&nbsp;For instance, after you talk with the driver set something like
&#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; to 1 and fork a process that will check =
this
property again 10 seconds later.&nbsp; In the meanwhile, if the player =
decides
to give him two pounds set the property back to 0 and continue with your =
next
actions.&nbsp; When your forked process responds back, make it first =
check if
&#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; is still set to 1 and if so make the =
driver
react as if he had not received the money in time, else exit the process
without doing anything since the driver got the money and everything is =
all
right.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope this =
helps!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:1.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>-</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;
color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Alex</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Jean-Marc Giffin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006
10:06 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Wait =
For an
Action?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
all!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Because
of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that expect you to =
give
them items.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For
example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then he =
asks
for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time for you =
to
&#8220;give driver 2 pounds&#8221;, but if you take too long, =
he&#8217;ll get annoyed
with you and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a
&#8220;read(player)&#8221;, but then (as far as I know) it would take =
away from
allowing the normal &#8220;give&#8221; command to take place, since it
wouldn&#8217;t parse the string. I then thought of making a =
&#8220;fork&#8221;
or &#8220;suspend&#8221;, but if the suspend was 10 seconds (for =
example), and
I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the =
driver
to respond. Is there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of =
time
for an event, and as soon as it takes place, things =
continue?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!</span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc
Giffin</span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C6A101.6409C940--

From jung@uib.no  Thu Jul  6 12:38:01 2006
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Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:37:00 +0200
From: Daniel Jung <jung@uib.no>
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To: encore <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
References: <EC6501D4A6BB5442B583E3FABC9D131F073F1472@exchange.ad.acadiau.ca> <44AD458F.9070804@uib.no>
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Daniel Jung wrote:

I suggested

>   fork()
>     answer = read(player);
>     if (match(answer, "give driver two pounds"))
>       this.received_money = 1;
>     endif
>   endfork


Addendum:

The read() builtin stops automatically after two minutes (I think). Of 
course, this is too long, and could mess up the workings when another 
customer comes after the ten seconds have elapsed and before the two 
minutes are completed. So you probably should insert a counter (or even 
better: a simple check) inside the fork as well, like the counter on the 
outside. Then kill the read(), if it's still active, or let it run, but 
without setting the properties. E.g.,

   if (match(answer, "give driver two pounds")
       && time() - t < this.max_waiting)
     this.received_money = 1;
   endif

HTH

- Daniel


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From: "Kevin Jepson" <kevijeps@telusplanet.net>
To: <jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca>, <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:57:24 -0600
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Jean-Marc
Variables only exist while a verb is executing, ie they are temporary =
and
onlyvisible tothat verb code.
Therfore don't use a "variable", which only exists during the lifetime =
of a
verb/task, if you want info to be persistent.
That is why Alex suggested using a Property which is persistent on the
object regardless of which verbs are running.
Check out the LambdaMoo Programming manual for more info.
Ciao
KJ

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: July 6, 2006 10:46 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?



Hey Alex,

=20

Thanks for the response. However, I have tried what you described, but
there=92s a problem. See, as soon as the =93fork=94 is encountered, all =
variables
within it are what they are when the fork is called, not what they will =
be
once it is executed. So changing the value of =93waiting_for_money=94 =
after it=92s
been done won=92t affect the fork at all.

The alternative that I=92ve tried is to give the fork a task name, and =
then
kill that task once something is read in:

=20

fork complain (15)

            statements;

endfork

read =3D read(player);

kill_task(complain);

=20

This works fine, as long as the user answers before the fork is =
executed.
However, if the user answers after the fork is executed, then it gives =
an
=93invalid argument=94 error, since that task is no longer running.

I tried making it conditional, like this:

=20

complain =3D 0;

fork complain (15)

            complain =3D 0;

            statements;

endfork

read =3D read(player);

if (complain)

kill_task(complain);

endif

=20

However, whatever happens within the fork doesn=92t seem to affect the
outside, so this doesn=92t work either.

Is there a built-in command that would quickly check if =93complain=94 =
is a
valid task? Something like:

=20

is_running(complain) ?

=20

Or any alternatives to what I have been trying?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin

=20


   _____ =20


From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Alexandre Borgia
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:47 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

=20

Hi Jean-Marc,

=20

You could keep state information in a property on the driver.  For =
instance,
after you talk with the driver set something like =
=93waiting_for_money=94 to 1
and fork a process that will check this property again 10 seconds later. =
 In
the meanwhile, if the player decides to give him two pounds set the =
property
back to 0 and continue with your next actions.  When your forked process
responds back, make it first check if =93waiting_for_money=94 is still =
set to 1
and if so make the driver react as if he had not received the money in =
time,
else exit the process without doing anything since the driver got the =
money
and everything is all right.

=20

Hope this helps!

-          Alex

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:06 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Wait For an Action?

=20

Hey all!

=20

Because of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that =
expect
you to give them items.

For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then =
he
asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time for =
you
to =93give driver 2 pounds=94, but if you take too long, he=92ll get =
annoyed with
you and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a
=93read(player)=94, but then (as far as I know) it would take away from =
allowing
the normal =93give=94 command to take place, since it wouldn=92t parse =
the string.
I then thought of making a =93fork=94 or =93suspend=94, but if the =
suspend was 10
seconds (for example), and I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would =
have to
wait 8 seconds for the driver to respond. Is there a good way to make =
the
bot wait a certain amount of time for an event, and as soon as it takes
place, things continue?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Jean-Marc</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Variables only exist while a verb is executing, ie they are =
temporary and=20
onlyvisible tothat verb code.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Therfore don't use a "variable", which only exists during the =
lifetime of=20
a verb/task, if you want info to be persistent.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>That=20
is why Alex suggested using a Property which is persistent on the object =

regardless of which verbs are running.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Check=20
out the LambdaMoo Programming manual for more info.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Ciao</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D230465317-06072006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>KJ</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <B>On =
Behalf Of=20
  </B>Jean-Marc Giffin<BR><B>Sent:</B> July 6, 2006 10:46 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  encore@utdallas.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> [encore] Re: Wait For an=20
  Action?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hey=20
  Alex,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for =
the=20
  response. However, I have tried what you described, but there=92s a =
problem.=20
  See, as soon as the =93fork=94 is encountered, all variables within it =
are what=20
  they are when the fork is called, not what they will be once it is =
executed.=20
  So changing the value of =93waiting_for_money=94 after it=92s been =
done won=92t affect=20
  the fork at all.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The =
alternative that=20
  I=92ve tried is to give the fork a task name, and then kill that task =
once=20
  something is read in:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">fork =
complain=20
  (15)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  statements;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">endfork<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">read =3D=20
  read(player);<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">kill_task(complain);<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This works =
fine, as=20
  long as the user answers before the fork is executed. However, if the =
user=20
  answers after the fork is executed, then it gives an =93invalid =
argument=94 error,=20
  since that task is no longer running.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I tried =
making it=20
  conditional, like this:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">complain =
=3D=20
  0;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">fork =
complain=20
  (15)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  complain =3D 0;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
=20
  statements;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">endfork<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">read =3D=20
  read(player);<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">if=20
  (complain)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">kill_task(complain);<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">endif<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">However, =
whatever=20
  happens within the fork doesn=92t seem to affect the outside, so this =
doesn=92t=20
  work either.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Is there a =
built-in=20
  command that would quickly check if =93complain=94 is a valid task? =
Something=20
  like:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">is_running(complain)=20
  ?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Or any =
alternatives=20
  to what I have been trying?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jean-Marc=20
  Giffin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
  encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] =
<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Alexandre =
Borgia<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July 06, 2006 =
11:47=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  encore@utdallas.edu<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
  [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
  Jean-Marc,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">You=20
  could keep state information in a property on the driver. &nbsp;For =
instance,=20
  after you talk with the driver set something like =
=93waiting_for_money=94 to 1 and=20
  fork a process that will check this property again 10 seconds =
later.&nbsp; In=20
  the meanwhile, if the player decides to give him two pounds set the =
property=20
  back to 0 and continue with your next actions.&nbsp; When your forked =
process=20
  responds back, make it first check if =93waiting_for_money=94 is still =
set to 1=20
  and if so make the driver react as if he had not received the money in =
time,=20
  else exit the process without doing anything since the driver got the =
money=20
  and everything is all right.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hope this=20
  helps!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.75in; TEXT-INDENT: =
-0.25in"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">-</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D1><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: =
navy">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Alex</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] =
<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jean-Marc =
Giffin<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July 06, 2006 =
10:06=20
  AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  encore@utdallas.edu<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
  [encore] Wait For an Action?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Hey=20
  all!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Because=20
  of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots that expect you =
to give=20
  them items.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">For=20
  example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then =
he asks=20
  for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time for you =
to=20
  =93give driver 2 pounds=94, but if you take too long, he=92ll get =
annoyed with you=20
  and move on. I was thinking that it would be possible to do a =
=93read(player)=94,=20
  but then (as far as I know) it would take away from allowing the =
normal =93give=94=20
  command to take place, since it wouldn=92t parse the string. I then =
thought of=20
  making a =93fork=94 or =93suspend=94, but if the suspend was 10 =
seconds (for example),=20
  and I gave the coins after 2 seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds =
for the=20
  driver to respond. Is there a good way to make the bot wait a certain =
amount=20
  of time for an event, and as soon as it takes place, things=20
  continue?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Thanks!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jean-Marc=20
  Giffin</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>--<BR>No virus found in this outgoing =
message.<BR>Checked by=20
  AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - =
Release=20
  Date: 30/06/2006<BR></FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>--<BR>No virus found in this incoming =
message.<BR>Checked by=20
  AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - =
Release=20
  Date: 04/07/2006<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: =
04/07/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>

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From jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca  Thu Jul  6 13:00:07 2006
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Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:59:44 -0300
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Hey,

=20

Sorry, what I said was misleading. I actually did mean an object's
property, not a variable.

=20

Thanks,

=20

Jean-Marc Giffin

=20

________________________________

From: Kevin Jepson [mailto:kevijeps@telusplanet.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:57 PM
To: jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca; encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: RE: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

=20

Jean-Marc

Variables only exist while a verb is executing, ie they are temporary
and onlyvisible tothat verb code.

Therfore don't use a "variable", which only exists during the lifetime
of a verb/task, if you want info to be persistent.

That is why Alex suggested using a Property which is persistent on the
object regardless of which verbs are running.

Check out the LambdaMoo Programming manual for more info.

Ciao

KJ

	-----Original Message-----
	From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
	Sent: July 6, 2006 10:46 AM
	To: encore@utdallas.edu
	Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

	Hey Alex,

	=20

	Thanks for the response. However, I have tried what you
described, but there's a problem. See, as soon as the "fork" is
encountered, all variables within it are what they are when the fork is
called, not what they will be once it is executed. So changing the value
of "waiting_for_money" after it's been done won't affect the fork at
all.

	The alternative that I've tried is to give the fork a task name,
and then kill that task once something is read in:

	=20

	fork complain (15)

	            statements;

	endfork

	read =3D read(player);

	kill_task(complain);

	=20

	This works fine, as long as the user answers before the fork is
executed. However, if the user answers after the fork is executed, then
it gives an "invalid argument" error, since that task is no longer
running.

	I tried making it conditional, like this:

	=20

	complain =3D 0;

	fork complain (15)

	            complain =3D 0;

	            statements;

	endfork

	read =3D read(player);

	if (complain)

	kill_task(complain);

	endif

	=20

	However, whatever happens within the fork doesn't seem to affect
the outside, so this doesn't work either.

	Is there a built-in command that would quickly check if
"complain" is a valid task? Something like:

	=20

	is_running(complain) ?

	=20

	Or any alternatives to what I have been trying?

	=20

	Thanks!

	=20

	Jean-Marc Giffin

	=20

=09
________________________________


	From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On Behalf Of Alexandre Borgia
	Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:47 AM
	To: encore@utdallas.edu
	Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

	=20

	Hi Jean-Marc,

	=20

	You could keep state information in a property on the driver.
For instance, after you talk with the driver set something like
"waiting_for_money" to 1 and fork a process that will check this
property again 10 seconds later.  In the meanwhile, if the player
decides to give him two pounds set the property back to 0 and continue
with your next actions.  When your forked process responds back, make it
first check if "waiting_for_money" is still set to 1 and if so make the
driver react as if he had not received the money in time, else exit the
process without doing anything since the driver got the money and
everything is all right.

	=20

	Hope this helps!

	-          Alex

	=20

	=20

	-----Original Message-----
	From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
	Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:06 AM
	To: encore@utdallas.edu
	Subject: [encore] Wait For an Action?

	=20

	Hey all!

	=20

	Because of the nature of how I am making the MOO, I have bots
that expect you to give them items.

	For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver
and then he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit
of time for you to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long,
he'll get annoyed with you and move on. I was thinking that it would be
possible to do a "read(player)", but then (as far as I know) it would
take away from allowing the normal "give" command to take place, since
it wouldn't parse the string. I then thought of making a "fork" or
"suspend", but if the suspend was 10 seconds (for example), and I gave
the coins after 2 seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the driver
to respond. Is there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of
time for an event, and as soon as it takes place, things continue?

	=20

	Thanks!

	=20

	Jean-Marc Giffin

	=20

	--
	No virus found in this outgoing message.
	Checked by AVG Free Edition.
	Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date:
30/06/2006

	=20

	--
	No virus found in this incoming message.
	Checked by AVG Free Edition.
	Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date:
04/07/2006


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date:
04/07/2006



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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sorry, what I said was misleading. =
I
actually did mean an object&#8217;s property, not a =
variable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Kevin =
Jepson
[mailto:kevijeps@telusplanet.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006 2:57
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca;
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [encore] Re: =
Wait For
an Action?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Jean-Marc</span></font><o:p></o:p></=
p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Variables only exist while a verb =
is
executing, ie they are temporary and onlyvisible tothat verb =
code.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Therfore don't use a =
&quot;variable&quot;,
which only exists during the lifetime of a verb/task, if you want info =
to be
persistent.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>That is why Alex suggested using a
Property which is persistent on the object regardless of which verbs are
running.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Check out the LambdaMoo Programming =
manual
for more info.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Ciao</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>KJ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Jean-Marc Giffin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> July 6, 2006 10:46 =
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Re: =
Wait For an
Action?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
Alex,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the response. However, I =
have
tried what you described, but there&#8217;s a problem. See, as soon as =
the &#8220;fork&#8221; is
encountered, all variables within it are what they are when the fork is =
called,
not what they will be once it is executed. So changing the value of
&#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; after it&#8217;s been done won&#8217;t =
affect the fork at all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The alternative that I&#8217;ve =
tried is to give
the fork a task name, and then kill that task once something is read =
in:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fork complain =
(15)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
statements;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endfork<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>read =3D =
read(player);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>kill_task(complain);<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This works fine, as long as the =
user
answers before the fork is executed. However, if the user answers after =
the
fork is executed, then it gives an &#8220;invalid argument&#8221; error, =
since that task is
no longer running.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I tried making it conditional, like =
this:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>complain =3D =
0;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fork complain =
(15)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
complain =3D 0;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
statements;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endfork<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>read =3D =
read(player);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>if =
(complain)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>kill_task(complai=
n);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>endif<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However, whatever happens within =
the fork
doesn&#8217;t seem to affect the outside, so this doesn&#8217;t work =
either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is there a built-in command that =
would
quickly check if &#8220;complain&#8221; is a valid task? Something =
like:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>is_running(complain) =
?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Or any alternatives to what I have =
been
trying?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Alexandre Borgia<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006
11:47 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Re: =
Wait For an
Action?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi =
Jean-Marc,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You could keep =
state
information in a property on the driver. &nbsp;For instance, after you =
talk
with the driver set something like &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; to 1 =
and fork a process
that will check this property again 10 seconds later.&nbsp; In the =
meanwhile,
if the player decides to give him two pounds set the property back to 0 =
and
continue with your next actions.&nbsp; When your forked process responds =
back,
make it first check if &#8220;waiting_for_money&#8221; is still set to 1 =
and if so make the
driver react as if he had not received the money in time, else exit the =
process
without doing anything since the driver got the money and everything is =
all
right.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope this =
helps!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.75in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>-</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;
color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Alex</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
encore-bounce@utdallas.edu
[mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Jean-Marc Giffin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 06, =
2006
10:06 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
encore@utdallas.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [encore] Wait =
For an
Action?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
all!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Because of the =
nature of
how I am making the MOO, I have bots that expect you to give them =
items.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For example, to =
take a
carriage, you have to talk to the driver and then he asks for 2 pounds. =
I want
to make it so that he waits a bit of time for you to &#8220;give driver =
2 pounds&#8221;,
but if you take too long, he&#8217;ll get annoyed with you and move on. =
I was
thinking that it would be possible to do a &#8220;read(player)&#8221;, =
but then (as far as
I know) it would take away from allowing the normal &#8220;give&#8221; =
command to take
place, since it wouldn&#8217;t parse the string. I then thought of =
making a &#8220;fork&#8221; or
&#8220;suspend&#8221;, but if the suspend was 10 seconds (for example), =
and I gave the
coins after 2 seconds, I would have to wait 8 seconds for the driver to
respond. Is there a good way to make the bot wait a certain amount of =
time for
an event, and as soon as it takes place, things =
continue?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks!</span></f=
ont><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></fo=
nt><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jean-Marc =
Giffin</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>--<br>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: =
30/06/2006</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>--<br>
No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: =
04/07/2006</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: =
04/07/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C6A125.F00BC408--

From kevijeps@telusplanet.net  Thu Jul  6 13:08:23 2006
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From: "Kevin Jepson" <kevijeps@telusplanet.net>
To: <jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca>, "'encore'" <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:07:42 -0600
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Jean-Marc

WRT multiple quantities of objects like money, consumables etc. There =
are
lots of MOO objects like that.

There are logical issues that need to be addressed using such systems in
MOOS.
Do you want real objects represented by the quantity, ie 3 cans of beer
#345,#346,#347?
If so what happens when someone wants a fourth?  What if someone looses =
#346
or you recycle it by accident?

Or do you want to have a MONEY property on the Player that get's =
incremented
when they get money and decremented when they spend it? In which case =
you
need to make sure that that property is protected so that the Player =
can't
mess with it except througfh suthorized verbs/objects (like a banker).

One set of such objects freely available, in that they are already =
coded, is
the money, ammunition system in the RPG core which is available here:
http://members.aol.com/geocorona/rpgmoo.html

I have split out the objects, preparatory to porting them into my MOO =
(which
I never actually got around to doing) and could send them to you if you
like.

Ciao
KJ

-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Jean-Marc Giffin
Sent: July 6, 2006 11:33 AM
To: encore
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?


Thanks for the reply, this method seems to run a lot more smoothly. By =
the
way, before I do a bunch of extra work, is there already an =
implementation
of a quantity item? By that I mean, the way the MOO is set up is that a
"shovel" is a shovel object, and a "cat" is a cat object, but if I =
wanted to
have a certain amount of money that I could transfer to another player, =
or
bot, is there a quantity item system already set up to do that?

That way all that really changes is the amount that each player has... =
the
difficulty I'm facing is the parsing of giving, since it expects:

give thing to whoever

But we want:

give amount thing to whoever.

Any ideas? I have a few if I have to do it myself, but no need if it =
already
exists.

Thanks,

Jean-Marc Giffin


-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On
Behalf Of Daniel Jung
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:17 PM
To: encore
Subject: [encore] Re: Wait For an Action?

Jean-Marc Giffin wrote:

> For example, to take a carriage, you have to talk to the driver and
then
> he asks for 2 pounds. I want to make it so that he waits a bit of time =

> for you to "give driver 2 pounds", but if you take too long, he'll get =

> annoyed with you and move on.


Like Alex said, the best solution would be to store the value "paid|not=20
paid" into a property.

This code below is off the sleeve, NOT tested. It is a mere suggestion=20
for structuring your verb.

You need three properties:

driver.received_money =3D 0;
driver.busy =3D 0;
driver.max_wait =3D 10;

********************************************************************
if (this.busy)
   player:tell("Please wait. There is another customer before you."); =
else
   this.received_money =3D 0;
   player:tell("Please give me two pounds");
   fork()
     answer =3D read(player);
     if (match(answer, "give driver two pounds"))
       this.received_money =3D 1;
     endif
   endfork
   t =3D time();
   while (time() - t < this.max_wait && !this.received_money)
     suspend(1);
   endwhile
   if (this.received_money)
     player:tell("Thanks. The ride begins");
   else
     player:tell("I don't bother waiting any more. Bye.");
   endif
   this.received_money =3D this.busy =3D 0;
endif
********************************************************************


The clue is the while() clause which checks every second if the=20
condition is met, and stops at a given maximum of seconds.

HTH
- Daniel




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From jung@uib.no  Thu Jul  6 14:34:34 2006
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Jean-Marc Giffin wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, this method seems to run a lot more smoothly.
> By the way, before I do a bunch of extra work, is there already an
> implementation of a quantity item? 

Hm. Depends on what you mean by the term.

There is the quota system. And even the bare notion of INT (integers) as 
a data type couldbe said to be the implementation of quantity.

That being said, the string

   verb   directObjectString   preposition   indirectObjectString

must ALWAYS be parsed. First, the verb is parsed. One word up to the 
first whitespace. Then, the preposition is looked for. If a "to" is 
encountered, it is regarded as the preposition "to" - if it is meant 
that way or not. E.g.,

    whisper What to do now to Jean

would be parsed as

    verb:    whisper
    dobjstr: What
    prep:    to
    iobjstr: do now to Jean

Of course, you don't want that. It results in a matching error: "do now 
to Jean" is not a player. You want

    verb:    whisper
    dobjstr: What to do now
    prep:    to
    iobjstr: Jean

In order to achieve this, you must put the dobjstr into quotes:

    whisper "What to do now" to Jean

and you're there.



Why am I writing this? Well, as I said, all commands need to be parsed. 
So if you have a verb

    give any to this (defined on the object), or
    give any to any  (defined on the room, or player)

the first "any" (i.e., what it stands for) must be interpreted. So if 
you type

    give 40 bucks to driver

the phrase "40 bucks" need to be dissected. If the verb arguments are 
"this to any" etc., then "40 bucks" is automatically matched against the 
object in question and the verb executed if matched. If the args are 
"any to any", then the first "any" is just a string you must parse 
yourself. You could do it this way:

**********************************************
phrase = iobjstr; // "iobjstr" is a builtin variable. use it!
parts = $string_utils:explode(phrase);
amount = parts[1];
if ($string_utils:is_integer(amount))
   value = toint(amount);
   "example of what to do below";
   "you must have sufficient perms to do this!";
   player.savings = player.savings - value;
   this.savings = this.savings + value;
   player:tell(tostr("You have given ", value, " bucks to the driver."));
   this:tell(tostr(player.name, " jsut gave you ", value, " bucks."));
else
   player:tell("Sorry, didn't get that. How many bucks?");
endif
**********************************************

Of course, it should check if the player still has enough money to take 
that ride, etc. Again, this is not a complete verb such as I would write 
it, it is just an explanation of the structure.

Just one more suggestion: You could extend the exploding, and make sure 
somebody is not giving the driver 40 elephant droppings:


**********************************************
if (length(parts) > 1)
   allowed_units = {"dollars", "bucks", "clams"};
   old_units = {"lire", "francs", "marks"};
   if ((parts[2] in (allowed_units))
     "do the maths";
   elseif (((parts[2] in (old_units))
     player:tell("Those coins are old. Please pay in dollars.");
   endif
     player:tell("I don't recognize the currency");
   endif
endif
**********************************************


... and even call a currency converting verb and calculate the worth in 
dollars when somebody wants to pay in Euros... I recall very dimly that 
someone did that once. No idea when, where and who though.

HTH
- Daniel






From kevijeps@telusplanet.net  Sun Jul  9 13:58:04 2006
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Good Afternoon Folks
=20
I hope you're enjoying your weekend.
=20
Lennie has passed me the keys to the Barn, HYPERLINK
"http://www.encore-consortium.org/Barn/default.htm"http://www.encore-cons=
ort
ium.org/Barn/default.htm , along with a broom shovel, bucket, hammer, =
saw
and a lot of tools for some major renovations. :-)
=20
Over the next couple of weeks please take a look and you should see lots =
of
shiny new (and classic old) content and some new and interesting =
information
for EnCore users, Wizards and MOO enthusiasts generally.=20
=20
Lennie's original rationale still applies:


About The Barn


The Barn was built out of a discussion on the encore-list in May of 2004
about the need for a common repository of moo code and knowledge. Call =
it a
library, call it a container, call it a shared knowledge base--it is =
only as
good as those who contribute to it make it.

Here useful innovations created by individuals or institutions can be =
made
available to the community of enCore users.=20

Lennie Irvin
founder of The Barn, May, 2004

Please feel free to send me comments and suggestions about what you see =
at
the Barn.
Submissions of Code, as either Objects or snippets, and links to useful =
MOO
info are welcome.
=20
More info soon, as the dust starts to fly. :-)
=20
Stay tuned.
=20
Ciao
KJ
=20
P.S. Sorry for the crossposting if you are on more than one of these =
lists.
=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Kevin Jepson R.E.T.
President
4K Consulting Inc.                   =20
An't nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.
Email: kevijeps@telusplanet.net
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


--=20
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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07/07/2006
=20

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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006>Good =
Afternoon=20
Folks</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D248482518-09072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006>I hope =
you're=20
enjoying your weekend.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D248482518-09072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006>Lennie =
has passed me=20
the keys to the Barn, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.encore-consortium.org/Barn/default.htm">http://www.enc=
ore-consortium.org/Barn/default.htm</A>&nbsp;,=20
along with a broom shovel, bucket, hammer, saw and a lot of tools for =
some major=20
renovations. :-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D248482518-09072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006>Over =
the next couple=20
of weeks please&nbsp;take a look and you should see lots of shiny new =
(and=20
classic old) content and some new and interesting information for EnCore =
users,=20
Wizards and MOO enthusiasts generally.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D248482518-09072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006>Lennie's original rationale =
still=20
applies:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <H3><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">About The =
Barn</FONT></H3>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D3>The Barn was =
built out of=20
  a discussion on the encore-list in May of 2004 about the need for a =
common=20
  repository of moo code and knowledge. Call it a library, call it a =
container,=20
  call it a shared knowledge base--it is only as good as those who =
contribute to=20
  it make it.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D3>Here useful =
innovations=20
  created by individuals or institutions can be made available to the =
community=20
  of enCore users. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D3>Lennie =
Irvin<BR>founder of=20
  The Barn, May, 2004</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></FONT></DIV><!-- =
Converted from text/plain format -->
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please =
feel free to=20
send me comments and suggestions about what you see at the=20
Barn.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Submissions of Code,=20
as either Objects or snippets, and links to useful MOO info&nbsp;are=20
welcome.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>More =
info soon, as=20
the dust starts to fly. :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stay=20
tuned.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Ciao</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>KJ</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.S. =
Sorry for the=20
crossposting if you are on more than one of these =
lists.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D248482518-09072006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Kevin Jepson=20
R.E.T.<BR>President<BR>4K Consulting=20
Inc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>An't=20
nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.<BR>Email:=20
kevijeps@telusplanet.net<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu  Wed Jul 12 10:02:31 2006
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Subject: [encore] encore hosting
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*******************************
This message was initially posted to the development@encore-consortium.org list
Please pardon the cross-posting for some of you
LI
******************************

Hi Everyone,

I had some conversations with Daniel in Jung about the crucial issue
of solidifying how people host an enCore site.  Secondary Worlds (now 
Literary Worlds)
experienced a major loss of data due to problems they encountered
with hosting enCore.  It is not completely enCore's fault, but from a
usability standpoint, instructions and guidance for hosting need to be
created such that hosting is made easier.  If hosting enCore is too
complicated that general users can't do it, then in my book it is
enCore's fault.

So I am calling on enCore developers to see if they can't put
together a clear guide for hosting an enCore site, and perhaps
brainstorm how to make hosting more reliable and simpler.  Here are a
few related considerations that seem pertinent to me:

1) Part of the cause of lost data is some confusion between the three
versions of the database--moo.db, moo.newdb, moo.olddb (pardon if my
naming is off). We can't forget the database that lives in vapor
within the RAM (that gets checkpointed to moo.newdb
periodically).  None tech people have problems knowing what and how
they should backup their database.

The odd situation of Secondary Worlds--They ran into an odd situation
where the server they were hosted on ran out of room.  It
checkpointed and backed up to moo.newdb but the server aborted the
operation for lack of memory so their backedup versions of the
moo.newdb were all corrupted and incomplete.  THEN when they
restarted the moo, they lost the real version of the moo that lived
in the database.  I believe something similar happened to me when I
lost two months of up time and could not recover it.  I didn't have a
problem with memory, but somehow the true database (living in the
RAM) was not updated into the moo.new.db.

I wonder if a periodic total moo restart would not be such a bad
thing to automate and have happen.  If checkpoints happen every 30
minutes and update the moo.newdb, then perhaps a total moo server
restart would update the moo.olddb as well once a day or once a
week.  This is only a suggestion

2) Any batch files that may be needed so that the mooserver restarts
automatically upon a server reboot need to be provided (this seemed
to be an issue for me hosting on a windows server so I'm not sure for
a UNIX or LINUX box).

3) IF we can facilitate enCore hosting on profession web hosting
sites via Control Panels, we would greatly expand the availability of
enCore to general users.  For instance, Moodle a course platform, is
installable on my webhost via an application called
"Fantastico."  Here is a description of how Fantastico works:
http://www.webmasterstop.com/110.html

Here is the company link about Fantastico: http://netenberg.com/fantastico.php

Personally, enabling enCore installation via Fantastico into
webhosted spaces would help me immensely (since it looks like I don't
have a encore home anymore with the shuttering of Nouspace).  I'd
like to install enCore with a few clicks.

4) Installation and hosting issues bring up the BIG issue also of
updating an enCore database. Would we be able to facilitate automated
updating of an enCore database (rather than the laborsome copy and
paste process right now)?  Could we have options for installation
--Custom install which would be the current method for sites that
have customized their database and must be careful how they install
the new code
--Autoinstall for users who pretty much use enCore as is and don't
create local customizations other than content.

I believe these issues are really important for enCore's future.  I
encourage you to use this list development@encore-consortium.org to
discuss and work on this issue and I'm looking forward to hearing
your ideas.  Please share how you host enCore right now.  How do you
back it up?

Cheers,

Lennie



From rozemar@gvsu.edu  Wed Jul 12 10:15:21 2006
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From: "Robert Rozema" <rozemar@gvsu.edu>
To: "Lennie Irvin" <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu>, <encore@utdallas.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: encore hosting
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Lennie,

Having used Fantastico plugins on my bluehost web account (e.g. I plugged =
in a Wordpress blog and a wiki), I think your idea makes a great deal of =
sense.  Educators interested in using enCore should be able to direct =
their techies to a site where they can simply plugin the application to =
their existing server. =20

My guess is, though, that enCore's required telnet connection might hinder =
things.  NOt too many sys admins are willing to compromise security, which =
was the problem at the heart of the Secondary Worlds/Literary Worlds =
fiasco.

    =20

Robert Rozema
English Dept.
Grand Valley State University
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/rozemar

>>> Lennie Irvin <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu> 07/12/06 11:02 AM >>>
*******************************
This message was initially posted to the development@encore-consortium.org =
list
Please pardon the cross-posting for some of you
LI
******************************

Hi Everyone,

I had some conversations with Daniel in Jung about the crucial issue
of solidifying how people host an enCore site.  Secondary Worlds (now=20
Literary Worlds)
experienced a major loss of data due to problems they encountered
with hosting enCore.  It is not completely enCore's fault, but from a
usability standpoint, instructions and guidance for hosting need to be
created such that hosting is made easier.  If hosting enCore is too
complicated that general users can't do it, then in my book it is
enCore's fault.

So I am calling on enCore developers to see if they can't put
together a clear guide for hosting an enCore site, and perhaps
brainstorm how to make hosting more reliable and simpler.  Here are a
few related considerations that seem pertinent to me:

1) Part of the cause of lost data is some confusion between the three
versions of the database--moo.db, moo.newdb, moo.olddb (pardon if my
naming is off). We can't forget the database that lives in vapor
within the RAM (that gets checkpointed to moo.newdb
periodically).  None tech people have problems knowing what and how
they should backup their database.

The odd situation of Secondary Worlds--They ran into an odd situation
where the server they were hosted on ran out of room.  It
checkpointed and backed up to moo.newdb but the server aborted the
operation for lack of memory so their backedup versions of the
moo.newdb were all corrupted and incomplete.  THEN when they
restarted the moo, they lost the real version of the moo that lived
in the database.  I believe something similar happened to me when I
lost two months of up time and could not recover it.  I didn't have a
problem with memory, but somehow the true database (living in the
RAM) was not updated into the moo.new.db.

I wonder if a periodic total moo restart would not be such a bad
thing to automate and have happen.  If checkpoints happen every 30
minutes and update the moo.newdb, then perhaps a total moo server
restart would update the moo.olddb as well once a day or once a
week.  This is only a suggestion

2) Any batch files that may be needed so that the mooserver restarts
automatically upon a server reboot need to be provided (this seemed
to be an issue for me hosting on a windows server so I'm not sure for
a UNIX or LINUX box).

3) IF we can facilitate enCore hosting on profession web hosting
sites via Control Panels, we would greatly expand the availability of
enCore to general users.  For instance, Moodle a course platform, is
installable on my webhost via an application called
"Fantastico."  Here is a description of how Fantastico works:
http://www.webmasterstop.com/110.html=20

Here is the company link about Fantastico: http://netenberg.com/fantastico.=
php=20

Personally, enabling enCore installation via Fantastico into
webhosted spaces would help me immensely (since it looks like I don't
have a encore home anymore with the shuttering of Nouspace).  I'd
like to install enCore with a few clicks.

4) Installation and hosting issues bring up the BIG issue also of
updating an enCore database. Would we be able to facilitate automated
updating of an enCore database (rather than the laborsome copy and
paste process right now)?  Could we have options for installation
--Custom install which would be the current method for sites that
have customized their database and must be careful how they install
the new code
--Autoinstall for users who pretty much use enCore as is and don't
create local customizations other than content.

I believe these issues are really important for enCore's future.  I
encourage you to use this list development@encore-consortium.org to
discuss and work on this issue and I'm looking forward to hearing
your ideas.  Please share how you host enCore right now.  How do you
back it up?

Cheers,

Lennie




From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu  Wed Jul 12 10:43:24 2006
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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:40:52 -0500
To: encore@utdallas.edu
From: Lennie Irvin <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: encore hosting
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Perhaps v5 will be easier to host since telnet access is done away with.

(Lennie looks Daniel's way...)

Lennie

At 10:14 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:
>Lennie,
>
>Having used Fantastico plugins on my bluehost web account (e.g. I 
>plugged in a Wordpress blog and a wiki), I think your idea makes a 
>great deal of sense.  Educators interested in using enCore should be 
>able to direct their techies to a site where they can simply plugin 
>the application to their existing server.
>
>My guess is, though, that enCore's required telnet connection might 
>hinder things.  NOt too many sys admins are willing to compromise 
>security, which was the problem at the heart of the Secondary 
>Worlds/Literary Worlds fiasco.
>
>
>
>Robert Rozema
>English Dept.
>Grand Valley State University
>http://faculty.gvsu.edu/rozemar
>
> >>> Lennie Irvin <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu> 07/12/06 11:02 AM >>>
>*******************************
>This message was initially posted to the 
>development@encore-consortium.org list
>Please pardon the cross-posting for some of you
>LI
>******************************
>
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I had some conversations with Daniel in Jung about the crucial issue
>of solidifying how people host an enCore site.  Secondary Worlds (now
>Literary Worlds)
>experienced a major loss of data due to problems they encountered
>with hosting enCore.  It is not completely enCore's fault, but from a
>usability standpoint, instructions and guidance for hosting need to be
>created such that hosting is made easier.  If hosting enCore is too
>complicated that general users can't do it, then in my book it is
>enCore's fault.
>
>So I am calling on enCore developers to see if they can't put
>together a clear guide for hosting an enCore site, and perhaps
>brainstorm how to make hosting more reliable and simpler.  Here are a
>few related considerations that seem pertinent to me:
>
>1) Part of the cause of lost data is some confusion between the three
>versions of the database--moo.db, moo.newdb, moo.olddb (pardon if my
>naming is off). We can't forget the database that lives in vapor
>within the RAM (that gets checkpointed to moo.newdb
>periodically).  None tech people have problems knowing what and how
>they should backup their database.
>
>The odd situation of Secondary Worlds--They ran into an odd situation
>where the server they were hosted on ran out of room.  It
>checkpointed and backed up to moo.newdb but the server aborted the
>operation for lack of memory so their backedup versions of the
>moo.newdb were all corrupted and incomplete.  THEN when they
>restarted the moo, they lost the real version of the moo that lived
>in the database.  I believe something similar happened to me when I
>lost two months of up time and could not recover it.  I didn't have a
>problem with memory, but somehow the true database (living in the
>RAM) was not updated into the moo.new.db.
>
>I wonder if a periodic total moo restart would not be such a bad
>thing to automate and have happen.  If checkpoints happen every 30
>minutes and update the moo.newdb, then perhaps a total moo server
>restart would update the moo.olddb as well once a day or once a
>week.  This is only a suggestion
>
>2) Any batch files that may be needed so that the mooserver restarts
>automatically upon a server reboot need to be provided (this seemed
>to be an issue for me hosting on a windows server so I'm not sure for
>a UNIX or LINUX box).
>
>3) IF we can facilitate enCore hosting on profession web hosting
>sites via Control Panels, we would greatly expand the availability of
>enCore to general users.  For instance, Moodle a course platform, is
>installable on my webhost via an application called
>"Fantastico."  Here is a description of how Fantastico works:
>http://www.webmasterstop.com/110.html
>
>Here is the company link about Fantastico: 
>http://netenberg.com/fantastico.php
>
>Personally, enabling enCore installation via Fantastico into
>webhosted spaces would help me immensely (since it looks like I don't
>have a encore home anymore with the shuttering of Nouspace).  I'd
>like to install enCore with a few clicks.
>
>4) Installation and hosting issues bring up the BIG issue also of
>updating an enCore database. Would we be able to facilitate automated
>updating of an enCore database (rather than the laborsome copy and
>paste process right now)?  Could we have options for installation
>--Custom install which would be the current method for sites that
>have customized their database and must be careful how they install
>the new code
>--Autoinstall for users who pretty much use enCore as is and don't
>create local customizations other than content.
>
>I believe these issues are really important for enCore's future.  I
>encourage you to use this list development@encore-consortium.org to
>discuss and work on this issue and I'm looking forward to hearing
>your ideas.  Please share how you host enCore right now.  How do you
>back it up?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Lennie



From matthew.coupe@nccedu.com  Wed Jul 12 11:36:15 2006
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Hi there,

A plug and play hosting service sounds like a great idea.

=46rom a techie perspective having the MOO shut down periodically to
update a db backup file is not really desirable. Maybe doing a periodic
db dump into this file is more like it.=20

Currently at NCC Edu we use server side scripts (we host our own MOO) to
do our backups. Each day we copy the files and whisk them away to
another server where we keep daily, weekly and monthly backups as well
as tape backups for disaster recovery. This is probably not possible on
a hosted service. Even though they will have their own backup mechanisms
for Disaster Recovery it's unlikely they'll use them to help you restore
a corrupt db.

Perhaps a solution would be to have an admin interface with an option
allowing you to set the frequency of your database dumps and how many
you want to keep.

Eg
I want to have a backup every month and keep 10 of these at any one
time.
So in my repository would be.
Moodb.db.new - latest

Moodb.db.1 (1 month earlier)
Moodb.db.2 (2 months earlier)
=2E
=2E
Moodb.db.10 (10 months earlier)

After 10 months it could reset to number 1.

IMHO Losing the telnet connection and the java applet are massive
strides forward. Do we know where are with ports too? Perhaps this is
another hosting issue that no one has brought up?

Warmest regards,
Matthew



NCC Education =E2=80=93 Bringing International Education to You since 196=
6=0A=0ANCC Education is a global leader in the certification and delivery=
 of quality higher education programmes in transnational markets.=0A=0AVi=
sit our website at www.nccedu.com=0A

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-----Original Message-----
From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu]On
Behalf Of Lennie Irvin
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:02 AM
To: encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] encore hosting


*******************************
This message was initially posted to the development@encore-consortium.org
list
Please pardon the cross-posting for some of you
LI
******************************

<rest of Lennie's comments removed>


After reading Lennie's message and others I've got to submit one piece of
information. Yes, most systems administrators, will freak out about opening
Telnet ports. If on the other hand our wonderful development team can take a
few moments and install SHH into, at least the telnet side, encore system it
would help a lot of the reserve questions some folks have. I've been running
a moo since the days when l could chat with Lambda himself and the changes
I've seen are amazing. While I don't have the time to delve into it like
some have, hats off to Lennie and his group especially, I do notice some
things. My biggest concern is NOT the insecurity, yes this is an issue, but
to make it more user friendly. This will require the processes that run the
moo to be LESS ram and cpu intensive. So while progress forward is always a
good thing we must keep in mind what college budget is going to provide a
$2500 server to run something such as this? My point you ask is simple take
a moment and step back and see if there isn't some way to clean up the code
and make it more efficient before adding more fluff and hoorah. Then again
maybe I'm just re-inventing the wheel. :)

Great job to all who have done so much with MOO and Encore. I'll keep
watching from the wings and poking around now and then.


From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu  Mon Jul 17 10:35:42 2006
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From: Lennie Irvin <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu>
Subject: [encore] Feedback/input on High Five
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--=====================_7178984==.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi Everyone,

I want to urge all interested enCore users once again to delve into 
the new High Five (beta version of v5) and kick the tires.  I am 
happy to create a character for you, or you can request your own from 
the login:

http://lingo.uib.no:6002/

Now is the time when we need to give High Five a good review and 
voice our feedback.  We have a good usability study to start from 
http://www.encore-consortium.org/reports/2006usabilitystudyreport.pdf
but nothing beats diving into the program yourself and working with it.

Join the Discussion
Within High Five (at http://lingo.uib.no:6002/) there is a forum 
devoted to discussing High Five issues .
--Click Mail/Forum in the menu bar
--Click Subscribe  and join the High Five Forum.
--Click Forum and enter the High Five forum to read and post messages.

I have recently been pursuing these issues related to High Five:

1) enCore hosting--we need to work out clear instructions for how to 
host an enCore site.  This includes installation, backup, updating, 
and moving. Anyone interested in working on this?
2) Default settings--Do any adjustments need to be made to the 
default settings for the program (such as keeping logs 
automatically). Most significant seems to be where the player window 
is set by default.  Should it be in the lower right in the web 
panel?  Should it be in the lower or upper left in the chat panel?
3) KTML--web editor for textboxes in some or all enCore 
descriptions.  I have advocated HTMLArea in the past, but KTML looks 
better--http://www.interaktonline.com/Products/Online-HTML-Editor/KTML-for-JSP/Overview/ 
Anyone want to try KTML integration to see how it works?
4) Play/interactive generics for the general release--right now the 
general release of enCore has no play objects. Should it have 
some?  Can you contribute one? Perhaps we can collect them through The Barn?
5) Manual CSS?--High Five has users set Appearance by manually 
manipulating css code (rather than with a form as before).  Is this a 
good thing? Would it be too difficult for our general users?
6) Other items?  What are issues you care about?

If anyone is interested, I would be up for a High Five party where we 
get together and chat about High Five.  Let me know if you are 
interested in this and when would be the best time for you and we'll 
set up a time.

Cheers,

Lennie 
--=====================_7178984==.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<body>
Hi Everyone,<br><br>
I want to urge all interested enCore users once again to delve into the
new High Five (beta version of v5) and kick the tires.&nbsp; I am happy
to create a character for you, or you can request your own from the
login:<br><br>
<a href="http://lingo.uib.no:6002/" eudora="autourl">
http://lingo.uib.no:6002/</a><br><br>
Now is the time when we need to give High Five a good review and voice
our feedback.&nbsp; We have a good usability study to start from
<a href="http://www.encore-consortium.org/reports/2006usabilitystudyreport.pdf" eudora="autourl">
http://www.encore-consortium.org/reports/2006usabilitystudyreport.pdf</a>
<br>
but nothing beats diving into the program yourself and working with
it.&nbsp; <br><br>
<b>Join the Discussion<br>
</b>Within High Five (at http://lingo.uib.no:6002/) there is a forum
devoted to discussing High Five issues .&nbsp; <br>
--Click Mail/Forum in the menu bar<br>
--Click Subscribe&nbsp; and join the High Five Forum.<br>
--Click Forum and enter the High Five forum to read and post
messages.&nbsp; <br><br>
I have recently been pursuing these issues related to High Five:<br><br>
1) enCore hosting--we need to work out clear instructions for how to host
an enCore site.&nbsp; This includes installation, backup, updating, and
moving. Anyone interested in working on this?&nbsp; <br>
2) Default settings--Do any adjustments need to be made to the default
settings for the program (such as keeping logs automatically). Most
significant seems to be where the player window is set by default.&nbsp;
Should it be in the lower right in the web panel?&nbsp; Should it be in
the lower or upper left in the chat panel?&nbsp; <br>
3) KTML--web editor for textboxes in some or all enCore
descriptions.&nbsp; I have advocated HTMLArea in the past, but KTML looks
better--http://www.interaktonline.com/Products/Online-HTML-Editor/KTML-for-JSP/Overview/&nbsp;
Anyone want to try KTML integration to see how it works?<br>
4) Play/interactive generics for the general release--right now the
general release of enCore has <b>no </b>play objects. Should it have
some?&nbsp; Can you contribute one? Perhaps we can collect them through
The Barn?<br>
5) Manual CSS?--High Five has users set Appearance by manually
manipulating css code (rather than with a form as before).&nbsp; Is this
a good thing? Would it be too difficult for our general users?<br>
6) Other items?&nbsp; What are issues you care about?&nbsp; <br><br>
If anyone is interested, I would be up for a High Five party where we get
together and chat about High Five.&nbsp; Let me know if you are
interested in this and when would be the best time for you and we'll set
up a time.<br><br>
Cheers,<br><br>
Lennie</body>
</html>

--=====================_7178984==.ALT--



From st05223@lingo.uib.no  Mon Jul 17 12:22:46 2006
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Subject: [encore] Re: Feedback/input on High Five
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Hi Lennie (and all others),

Lennie Irvin wrote:
> 3) KTML--web editor for textboxes in some or all enCore descriptions.  
> I have advocated HTMLArea in the past, but KTML looks 
> better--http://www.interaktonline.com/Products/Online-HTML-Editor/KTML-for-JSP/Overview/  
> Anyone want to try KTML integration to see how it works?
KTML seems cool, but from what I can see (I might be wrong/blind) there 
are two reasons as to why KTML may not be integrated into enCore:

1) Incompatible license. Anything that is supposed to "ship" with enCore 
has to be GPL licensed (or the like), right?
2) Makes use of JSP (Java Server Pages), meaning that it would only work 
on those enCore installations using e.g. Apache Tomcat for web server.

I've done some testing with integrating the GPL licensed TinyMCE editor 
by Moxiecode [1], which is 100% JavaScript based (meaning that it is 
100% independent of server side technologies), and enCore. I've used / 
integrated this web editor on other projects earlier, and must say it's 
a neat and powerful little thing. It works with most browsers (incl. IE, 
Firefox, Opera, Safari on Mac, etc.), but there are a few issues when it 
comes to integrating WYSIWYG editors in enCore.

TinyMCE + enCore works fine with Internet Explorer, but that's only due 
to one of the many security holes of that particular browser. IE ought 
to block some of the scripts -- those imported from the external server; 
the web server being a different server than the enCore server -- but 
doesn't (who would have guessed! :D). Mozilla, Firefox and Opera all do 
the right thing and block the external scripts from loading/executing, 
resulting in parts of the editor being unusable (when used inside enCore).

Now, I did make the prototype - which is implemented on a test MOO at 
Lingo - browser-aware, so that it initializes the editor (generates the 
script tags) based on the user's browser. I.e. if the user uses IE, it 
will go for the advanced version including image and table editor 
options [2], but if the user uses Opera or some kind of Gecko browser, 
it goes for a much more simple version, enabling only those functions 
that will work under the given browser [3].

Perhaps this is something that people is interested in? It might not 
make it into v5, but I could perhaps make a patch for it later on...

-Trond


[1] http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/
[2] 
http://lingo.uib.no/mootabor/encore/upload/userfiles/407/wysiwyg-msie.jpg
[3] 
http://lingo.uib.no/mootabor/encore/upload/userfiles/407/wysiwyg-opera.jpg




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Subject: [encore] Re: Feedback/input on High Five
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Lennie

Quickly looking at the KTML website it appears that their license will NOT 
permit us to inlcude their product in EnCore.

From their License Comparison Page:

6. Ability to include it into and redistribute with free/open source products
You have no right to include KTML into any Free/Open Source application and 
then redistribute it for free. None of the KTML licenses will allow you to 
include it into a program/application which is later distributed free of charge.
Ex: You have developed/improved a CMS, which you distribute free of charge or 
under an Open Source license. In this case, you have NO rights to include KTML 
into your CMS. 

That would make it unuseable for us if I understand our "Open Source" style 
right?

Otherwise it looks like a good tool.

Ciao
KJ



From jean-marc.giffin@acadiau.ca  Tue Jul 18 08:39:03 2006
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Subject: [encore] Examine?
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Hey enCore exPerts,

=20

I was briefly trying to figure something out, but I figured it would be
faster to check here instead.

Does anyone know what allows enCore to determine what deserves it's own
WEB page? By this I mean, every room has its own WEB page when you go
it, as does every player. When you @exam a $bot, you also get a page
with a description of the bot.

=20

However, I made my own kind of bot, called a storybot, which is similar
to an NPC in modern video games, and if I @exam $storybot, I go get the
usual information about the bot in the client, but it does not bring the
web side to any special web page. Any idea as to how to do this?

=20

Thanks!

=20

Jean Of mArc


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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hey enCore exPerts,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I was briefly trying to figure something out, but I =
figured
it would be faster to check here instead.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Does anyone know what allows enCore to determine what
deserves it&#8217;s own WEB page? By this I mean, every room has its own =
WEB
page when you go it, as does every player. When you @exam a $bot, you =
also get
a page with a description of the bot.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>However, I made my own kind of bot, called a =
storybot, which
is similar to an NPC in modern video games, and if I @exam $storybot, I =
go get
the usual information about the bot in the client, but it does not bring =
the
web side to any special web page. Any idea as to how to do =
this?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Jean Of mArc<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu  Tue Jul 18 08:40:47 2006
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:40:33 -0500
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From: Lennie Irvin <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu>
Subject: [encore] Re: Feedback/input on High Five
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Hey Trond,

Bad news about KTML.  It looks like a good tool.  However, I was VERY 
excited to see the example of how TinyMCE looked in Internet Explorer 
(http://lingo.uib.no/mootabor/encore/upload/userfiles/407/wysiwyg-msie.jpg).

I see that HTML Area from dynarch is defunk, but this site is a 
directory of wysiwyg editors
http://www.htmlarea.com/ .  I know we are open source; however, if we 
found a good editor that was implementable and the license was right, 
I think it would be worth the price.

Are there any better options that would work cross-browser?

One option that I would be interested in is still using TinyMCE since 
most all of my users tend to access via Internet Explorer (alas, I 
know...).  We could then NOT apply the edtor across the whole moo, 
but implement it only with a new generic room and generic note 
objects.  Then people could select to use the improved editor or 
not.  Eventually, I still see it as really important to get an editor 
like KTML or TinyMCE to work across all of enCore.

I'd be very interested in having the TinyMCE patch available!

Thanks,

Lennie

At 12:07 PM 7/17/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Lennie (and all others),
>
>Lennie Irvin wrote:
>>3) KTML--web editor for textboxes in some or all enCore descriptions.
>>I have advocated HTMLArea in the past, but KTML looks 
>>better--http://www.interaktonline.com/Products/Online-HTML-Editor/KTML-for-JSP/Overview/ 
>>
>>Anyone want to try KTML integration to see how it works?
>KTML seems cool, but from what I can see (I might be wrong/blind) 
>there are two reasons as to why KTML may not be integrated into enCore:
>
>1) Incompatible license. Anything that is supposed to "ship" with 
>enCore has to be GPL licensed (or the like), right?
>2) Makes use of JSP (Java Server Pages), meaning that it would only 
>work on those enCore installations using e.g. Apache Tomcat for web server.
>
>I've done some testing with integrating the GPL licensed TinyMCE 
>editor by Moxiecode [1], which is 100% JavaScript based (meaning 
>that it is 100% independent of server side technologies), and 
>enCore. I've used / integrated this web editor on other projects 
>earlier, and must say it's a neat and powerful little thing. It 
>works with most browsers (incl. IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari on Mac, 
>etc.), but there are a few issues when it comes to integrating 
>WYSIWYG editors in enCore.
>
>TinyMCE + enCore works fine with Internet Explorer, but that's only 
>due to one of the many security holes of that particular browser. IE 
>ought to block some of the scripts -- those imported from the 
>external server; the web server being a different server than the 
>enCore server -- but doesn't (who would have guessed! :D). Mozilla, 
>Firefox and Opera all do the right thing and block the external 
>scripts from loading/executing, resulting in parts of the editor 
>being unusable (when used inside enCore).
>
>Now, I did make the prototype - which is implemented on a test MOO 
>at Lingo - browser-aware, so that it initializes the editor 
>(generates the script tags) based on the user's browser. I.e. if the 
>user uses IE, it will go for the advanced version including image 
>and table editor options [2], but if the user uses Opera or some 
>kind of Gecko browser, it goes for a much more simple version, 
>enabling only those functions that will work under the given browser [3].
>
>Perhaps this is something that people is interested in? It might not 
>make it into v5, but I could perhaps make a patch for it later on...
>
>-Trond
>
>
>[1] http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/
>[2] http://lingo.uib.no/mootabor/encore/upload/userfiles/407/wysiwyg-msie.jpg
>[3] http://lingo.uib.no/mootabor/encore/upload/userfiles/407/wysiwyg-opera.jpg
>
>
>
>



From kevijeps@telusplanet.net  Sun Jul 23 13:45:33 2006
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From: "Kevin Jepson" <kevijeps@telusplanet.net>
To: "'encore'" <encore@utdallas.edu>,
	<Development@encore-consortium.org>
Subject: [encore] MOO Code documention guidelines for the Barn, ideas?
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:45:22 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6AE55.DD3ACFB0
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	charset="windows-1250"
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Good Afternoon Folks
=20
I'm trying to put together some guidelines for MOO code documentation =
that I
can use for The Barn.
=20
My objective is to make sure that "documented" code submitted is useful =
and
eductaional for those who might want to port it or just look at it for
ideas.
=20
Does anyone have recommendations for minimum standard code =
documentation?
=20
Do you have such documentation guidelines on your MOOs?
=20
I see two parts to this myself:
=20
a) Object Documentation
=20
b) Verb Documentation
=20
The first is fairly straight forward and includes:
=20
a) What the Object does and briefly how it does it.
=20
b) What requirements does it have for parental Generic Objects, MOO =
patch
levels, Wizardly code etc.=20
=20
c) How should it be installed and by what level of player.=20
=20
d) Any gotchas or known bugs.
=20
e) A Changelog if it has changed from previous versions.
=20
All this would be included in a Readme text file kept with the code =
files
available for download from The Barn.
=20
The Verb Documentation is a bit trickier.
=20
It could be done by text file and that would be a "nice to have" thing =
but
not required IMHO.
However, because of the object oriented nature of MOO, code from a =
ported
object may end up being used by people far removed in time (and MOO =
space)
from those who originally ported it.  This means that any documentation =
not
contained in the Verb code itself could potentially be lost resulting in =
a
bunch of "reverse engineering" should someone need to understand or =
reuse
the object or code.=20
=20
I have traditionally used a "header block" of comments at the start of =
each
Verb that includes:
=20
a) The Usage of the Verb ie what is the command to use the Verb and it's
arguments.
=20
b) A few lines of comments that are a brief help file on what the verb =
does,
what the arguments are and what the verb returns if anything. (On text =
based
LambdaMOOs this text is displayed by Help Object:Verb.)
=20
I also try to comment blocks of code that do something tricky, ie =
anything
I'm likely to forget before the next time I look at the code :-).
=20
LambdaMOO (and EnCore) also appears to append a "last modified" line to =
the
end of the Verb.  I like to keep a comment line just before that which =
has
the history of the changes to the verb.=20
=20
All this text resides in the DB itself and therefore leads to a certain
amount of DB bloat and longer Checkpoints.  At least in our Object =
Oriented
world these text strings only occur once on the original object and it's
verbs, not on any children of that object. I think the benefits to other
programmers and even users of our systems outweighs the downside of DB =
size.
=20
I can hear all the hotshot MOO programmers out there now...
=20
Verb documentation?  We don't need no stinkin verb documentation! :-)
=20
A sentiment I often agree with when in the midst of coding something. =
Who
wants to waste time with stuff like that when there are robots and =
puzzles
and beer mugs and places to build and enjoy.
=20
At least when we prepare Objects and code to share with the community ( =
via
The Barn, hint hint) we should try to make it easy for people to make =
use of
all our hard work.
=20
Thoughts comments and suggestions welcome as always.
=20
Ciao
KJ=20
=20
P.S. I have made some changes to The Barn and added some new info so =
check
it out when you get a chance:
HYPERLINK
"http://www.encore-consortium.org/Barn/default.htm"http://www.encore-cons=
ort
ium.org/Barn/default.htm
=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Kevin Jepson R.E.T.
President
4K Consulting Inc.                   =20
An't nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.

Email: kevijeps@telusplanet.net
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: =
21/07/2006
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>Good =
Afternoon=20
Folks</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>I'm =
trying to put=20
together some guidelines for MOO code documentation that I can use for =
The=20
Barn.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>My =
objective is to=20
make sure that "documented" code submitted is useful and eductaional for =
those=20
who might want to&nbsp;port it or&nbsp;just look at it for=20
ideas.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>Does =
anyone have=20
recommendations for minimum standard code =
documentation?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>Do you =
have such=20
documentation guidelines on your MOOs?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>I see =
two parts to=20
this myself:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>a) =
Object=20
Documentation</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>b) =
Verb=20
Documentation</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>The =
first is fairly=20
straight forward and includes:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>a) =
What the Object=20
does and briefly how it does it.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>b) =
What requirements=20
does it have for parental Generic Objects, MOO patch levels, Wizardly =
code etc.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D354054917-23072006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006>c) How =
should it be=20
installed and by what level of player.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>d) Any =
gotchas or=20
known bugs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>e) A =
Changelog if it=20
has changed from previous versions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All =
this would be=20
included in a Readme text file kept with the code files available for =
download=20
from The Barn.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The =
Verb=20
Documentation is a bit trickier.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It =
could be done by=20
text file and that would be a "nice to have" thing but not required=20
IMHO.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>However, because of=20
the object oriented nature of MOO, code from a ported object may end up =
being=20
used&nbsp;by people far removed in time (and MOO space) from those who=20
originally ported&nbsp;it.&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>This means=20
that any documentation not contained in the Verb code itself could =
potentially=20
be lost&nbsp;resulting in a&nbsp;bunch of "reverse engineering"=20
should&nbsp;someone need to understand or&nbsp;reuse the object or=20
code.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have =
traditionally=20
used a "header block" of comments at the start of each Verb that=20
includes:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a) The =
Usage of the=20
Verb ie what is the command to use the Verb and it's=20
arguments.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>b) A =
few lines of=20
comments that are a brief help file on what the verb does, what the =
arguments=20
are and what the verb returns if anything. (On text based LambdaMOOs =
this text=20
is displayed by Help Object:Verb.)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I also =
try to=20
comment blocks of code that do something tricky, ie anything I'm likely =
to=20
forget before the next time I look at the code :-).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>LambdaMOO (and=20
EnCore)&nbsp;also appears to append a "last modified" line to the end of =
the=20
Verb.&nbsp; I like to&nbsp;keep a comment line just before=20
that&nbsp;which&nbsp;has the history of the changes to the=20
verb.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All =
this text=20
resides in the DB itself and therefore leads to a certain amount of DB =
bloat=20
and&nbsp;longer Checkpoints.&nbsp; At least in our Object Oriented world =
these=20
text strings only occur once on the original object and it's verbs, not =
on any=20
children of that object. I think the benefits to other programmers and =
even=20
users of our systems outweighs the downside of DB =
size.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can =
hear all the=20
hotshot MOO programmers out there now...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Verb=20
documentation?&nbsp; We don't need no stinkin verb documentation!=20
:-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A =
sentiment I often=20
agree with when in the midst of coding something. Who wants to waste =
time with=20
stuff like that when there are robots and puzzles and beer mugs and =
places to=20
build and enjoy.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At =
least when we=20
prepare Objects and code to share with the community ( via&nbsp;The =
Barn, hint=20
hint) we should try to make it easy for people to make use of&nbsp;all =
our hard=20
work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Thoughts comments=20
and suggestions welcome as always.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Ciao</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>KJ</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.S. I =
have made=20
some changes to The Barn and added some new info so check it out when =
you get a=20
chance:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D354054917-23072006><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.encore-consortium.org/Barn/default.htm">http://www.enc=
ore-consortium.org/Barn/default.htm</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Kevin Jepson=20
R.E.T.<BR>President<BR>4K Consulting=20
Inc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>An't=20
nanum hearm deth, doth hwaet ye willath.<BR><BR>Email:=20
kevijeps@telusplanet.net<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV><=
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: =
21/07/2006<BR>
</FONT> </P>

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