From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Mon Sep 1 06:03:42 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:03:43 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7B35BAD for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:03:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FF61A2E54 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:02:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 14507-01-46 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:02:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 57C2638A9F for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 06:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.59] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:01:16 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030901060301.00a4bdf0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 06:07:32 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: Introduction to MOO inline scripting In-Reply-To: <001501c36f61$0ed903c0$6900a8c0@alex> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_31558967==.ALT" X-archive-position: 901 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore --=====================_31558967==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Alex, This looks like an awesome tool for simplifying the creation of web pages in the MOO. I wish I could help with the coding and scripting but I am not a programmer. However, I am willing to help in other ways by beta-testing whatever you create. (I would try what you have pulled together so far, but I think I might need some more help in actually implementing it.) Lennie At 09:41 PM 8/30/03 -0400, Alexandre Borgia wrote: >Greetings, > > I always found building webpages dynamically in MOO troublesome, mainly >because it is all done in code and must deal with an array of strings that >keeps groing. This is not a very intuitive syntax, and the page layout is >easily lost through it. > > I hence made a first attempt on a simple server-side scripting engine >for MOO (something similar to ASP or PHP). I kept the syntax very close to >ASP for now - here is an example of what it can deal with (this page >displays information about a MOO object and its content). > >(note: mail clients displaying messages in html will probably not see this - >switch to text or view source ;) > ============ > > ><% response:write(this.name); %> > > > ><%response:write(this.description);%> ><% for i in (this.contents) %> > * <%= i.name; %> <% endfor %> > ============ > > For those familar with ASP, this should be fairly obvious. For those >who are not, the code above must be seen as a standard HTML document with >common tags (body, p, ul, etc.) plus a special <% ... %> tag which contains >server script. All text wrapped around these tags will not appear to the >client and is considered MOO programming code which is executed along the >flow. For instance, in the example a list of objects is displayed to the >user. Since the number of objects in the list and their respective >properties change depending on which object you are looking at, it is >fetched programmatically by the server. But the way it is displayed to the >user always remains the same, and formatting tags as "li" are kept outside >the code. > > To give some general rules: > - <% ... %> are script blocks. They may not overlap, but may be >separated in smaller blocks without breaking the logical flow of code. Code >found between these tags is evaluated and executed in the context of the >page. Standard HTML tags can be put between two separate blocks and not >break the logic. > > - Two "virtual" verbs are added: > 1) response.write(), which append text to the webpage at >the current location. > 2) response.end(), which breaks the flow of text and submit the >page as it is. > > - <%= ... %> is a shortcut to "response.write". It may contain a >one-line expression returning a string value to be written to the page. > > - Also, two global variables are available in-code: "user" and >"form". "User" is the connected player requesting the page (pointing to >"everyman" if not logged into the MOO), and "form" is a {{key}, {value}} >array of data posted to the page. These are the standard arguments provided >by $httpd. > > > Now, about how it is implemented in the MOO: This scripting engine is >virtual, and really is a parser, at the end providing MOO readable code to >be compiled in standard verbs. What it does is abstract the manual building >of pages in a simple and transparent process to the user. It also unifies >common procedures and variable - as writting to the page or the "form" data >collection. Also, since the user deals with raw text, formatting is kept >intact (tabs and spaces), which is neat when dealing with HTML code:) > > What I have created for now is the following utility: > > $encore_web_utils:compile_MOO_script(, ); > (code is listed at the end of the mail) > > is the name of both a property *and* a verb found on >. What the utility does is read the property formatted in >HTML/MOO-script and compiles it into a verb of the same name, on the same >object. Users only work with the text property using a standard text >editor, and at the end the equivalent verb is created, ready to be requested >by the http daemon. Of course, as for now compilation must be done by >calling the utility manually, but eventually the text editor could contain a >"compile as webpage" option, and redirect the user to property edition when >needed. > > > As I think this would be an awesome tool for the enCore community, >but don't have much time to spend on it, I would like to gather comments and >suggestions about the scripting language, its syntax and what kind of >functionalities should be added to it. Also, if anyone is willing to >collaborate on the project, feel free to contact me:) Help would be very >precious to code & polish the engine and implement it in the enCore >environment. > > >Here is $encore_web_utils:compile_MOO_script : >PS: use carefully since it compiles the verb automatically. Also it does >not do any creation by itself, so both verb & prop must be defined already. >This is a draft but should be working. Tell me if you find any error. > ------------------------------- >set_task_perms(caller_perms()); >{object, scriptname} = args; >script = object.(scriptname); >responseStr = "_line_ = _line_ + "; >script_substitutions = {{"response:write", responseStr}, {"response:end()", >"ret >urn {@_html_, _line_}"}}; >page = {"{user, form} = args;", "_html_ = {};"}; >script_opener = "<%"; >script_closer = "%>"; >opener_length = length(script_opener); >closer_length = length(script_closer); >scripplet = ""; >if (typeof(script) != LIST) > script = {script}; >endif >for line in (script) > openers = $string_utils:index_all(line, script_opener); > closers = $string_utils:index_all(line, script_closer); > for i in [1..length(openers)] > openers[i] = openers[i] + opener_length; > endfor > if (scripplet != "") > openers = {1, @openers}; > endif > if (length(closers) > length(openers)) > return E_INVARG; > endif > if (length(openers) > 0) > page_line = {}; > for i in [1..length(openers)] > if ((i == length(openers)) && (length(closers) < i)) > scripplet = (scripplet + line[openers[i]..length(line)]) + " "; > continue; > else > if (openers[i] > closers[i]) > return E_INVARG; > endif > endif > if (scripplet == "") > start = (i == 1) ? 1 | (closers[i - 1] + closer_length); > lineStr = line[start..(openers[i] - opener_length) - 1]; > if (lineStr != "") > lineStr = $string_utils:substitute(lineStr, {{"\"", "\\\""}}); > page_line = {@page_line, ((responseStr + "\"") + lineStr) + >"\";"}; > endif > endif > scripplet = scripplet + >$string_utils:substitute(line[openers[i]..closers[ >i] - 1], script_substitutions); > if (scripplet[1] == "=") > scripplet = responseStr + scripplet[2..length(scripplet)]; > endif > page_line = {@page_line, scripplet}; > scripplet = ""; > endfor > if (scripplet == "") > lineStr = line[closers[$] + closer_length..length(line)]; > if (lineStr != "") > lineStr = $string_utils:substitute(lineStr, {{"\"", "\\\""}}); > page_line = {@page_line, ((responseStr + "\"") + lineStr) + "\";"}; > endif > endif > if (length(page_line)) > page = {@page, "_line_ = \"\";"}; > for l in (page_line) > page = {@page, l}; > endfor > page = {@page, "_html_ = {@_html_, _line_};"}; > endif > else > page = {@page, ("_html_ = {@_html_, \"" + $string_utils:substitute(line, >{{" >\"", "\\\""}})) + "\"};"}; > endif >endfor >if (scripplet != "") > return E_INVARG; >endif >page = {@page, "return _html_;"}; >player:tell_lines(page); >result = set_verb_code(object, scriptname, page); >return result; >"Last modified Sat Aug 30 18:11:15 2003 CDT by Korbeau (#2)."; > ------------------------------- > >To use: > - create a verb & property on an object with the same name (for >instance, "_html" which is the default web page for an object). > - edit the property so it contains HTML / MOO-script. > - Call the utility from an eval-prompt. > > > That's all folks! Have a nice weekend, > > - Alexandre Borgia --=====================_31558967==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Alex,

This looks like an awesome tool for simplifying the creation of web pages in the MOO.  I wish I could help with the coding and scripting but I am not a programmer.  However, I am willing to help in other ways by beta-testing whatever you create. (I would try what you have pulled together so far, but I think I might need some more help in actually implementing it.)

Lennie




At 09:41 PM 8/30/03 -0400, Alexandre Borgia wrote:
Greetings,

    I always found building webpages dynamically in MOO troublesome, mainly
because it is all done in code and must deal with an array of strings that
keeps groing.  This is not a very intuitive syntax, and the page layout is
easily lost through it.

    I hence made a first attempt on a simple server-side scripting engine
for MOO (something similar to ASP or PHP).  I kept the syntax very close to
ASP for now - here is an example of what it can deal with (this page
displays information about a MOO object and its content).

(note: mail clients displaying messages in html will probably not see this -
switch to text or view source ;)
    ============

<% response:write(this.name); %>



<%response:write(this.description);%>     ============

    For those familar with ASP, this should be fairly obvious.  For those
who are not, the code above must be seen as a standard HTML document with
common tags (body, p, ul, etc.) plus a special <% ... %> tag which contains
server script.  All text wrapped around these tags will not appear to the
client and is considered MOO programming code which is executed along the
flow.  For instance, in the example a list of objects is displayed to the
user.  Since the number of objects in the list and their respective
properties change depending on which object you are looking at, it is
fetched programmatically by the server.  But the way it is displayed to the
user always remains the same, and formatting tags as "li" are kept outside
the code.

    To give some general rules:
        - <% ... %> are script blocks.  They may not overlap, but may be
separated in smaller blocks without breaking the logical flow of code.  Code
found between these tags is evaluated and executed in the context of the
page.  Standard HTML tags can be put between two separate blocks and not
break the logic.

        - Two "virtual" verbs are added:
            1) response.write(<string>), which append text to the webpage at
the current location.
            2) response.end(), which breaks the flow of text and submit the
page as it is.

        - <%= ... %> is a shortcut to "response.write".  It may contain a
one-line expression returning a string value to be written to the page.

        - Also, two global variables are available in-code: "user" and
"form".  "User" is the connected player requesting the page (pointing to
"everyman" if not logged into the MOO), and "form" is a {{key}, {value}}
array of data posted to the page.  These are the standard arguments provided
by $httpd.


    Now, about how it is implemented in the MOO: This scripting engine is
virtual, and really is a parser, at the end providing MOO readable code to
be compiled in standard verbs.  What it does is abstract the manual building
of pages in a simple and transparent process to the user.  It also unifies
common procedures and variable - as writting to the page or the "form" data
collection.  Also, since the user deals with raw text, formatting is kept
intact (tabs and spaces), which is neat when dealing with HTML code:)

    What I have created for now is the following utility:

        $encore_web_utils:compile_MOO_script(<object>, <scriptname>);
        (code is listed at the end of the mail)

    <scriptname> is the name of both a property *and* a verb found on
<object>.  What the utility does is read the property formatted in
HTML/MOO-script and compiles it into a verb of the same name, on the same
object.  Users only work with the text property using a standard text
editor, and at the end the equivalent verb is created, ready to be requested
by the http daemon.  Of course, as for now compilation must be done by
calling the utility manually, but eventually the text editor could contain a
"compile as webpage" option, and redirect the user to property edition when
needed.


        As I think this would be an awesome tool for the enCore community,
but don't have much time to spend on it, I would like to gather comments and
suggestions about the scripting language, its syntax and what kind of
functionalities should be added to it.  Also, if anyone is willing to
collaborate on the project, feel free to contact me:)  Help would be very
precious to code & polish the engine and implement it in the enCore
environment.


Here is $encore_web_utils:compile_MOO_script :
PS: use carefully since it compiles the verb automatically.  Also it does
not do any creation by itself, so both verb & prop must be defined already.
This is a draft but should be working.  Tell me if you find any error.
 -------------------------------
set_task_perms(caller_perms());
{object, scriptname} = args;
script = object.(scriptname);
responseStr = "_line_ = _line_ + ";
script_substitutions = {{"response:write", responseStr}, {"response:end()",
"ret
urn {@_html_, _line_}"}};
page = {"{user, form} = args;", "_html_ = {};"};
script_opener = "<%";
script_closer = "%>";
opener_length = length(script_opener);
closer_length = length(script_closer);
scripplet = "";
if (typeof(script) != LIST)
  script = {script};
endif
for line in (script)
  openers = $string_utils:index_all(line, script_opener);
  closers = $string_utils:index_all(line, script_closer);
  for i in [1..length(openers)]
    openers[i] = openers[i] + opener_length;
  endfor
  if (scripplet != "")
    openers = {1, @openers};
  endif
  if (length(closers) > length(openers))
    return E_INVARG;
  endif
  if (length(openers) > 0)
    page_line = {};
    for i in [1..length(openers)]
      if ((i == length(openers)) && (length(closers) < i))
        scripplet = (scripplet + line[openers[i]..length(line)]) + " ";
        continue;
      else
        if (openers[i] > closers[i])
          return E_INVARG;
        endif
      endif
      if (scripplet == "")
        start = (i == 1) ? 1 | (closers[i - 1] + closer_length);
        lineStr = line[start..(openers[i] - opener_length) - 1];
        if (lineStr != "")
          lineStr = $string_utils:substitute(lineStr, {{"\"", "\\\""}});
          page_line = {@page_line, ((responseStr + "\"") + lineStr) +
"\";"};
        endif
      endif
      scripplet = scripplet +
$string_utils:substitute(line[openers[i]..closers[
i] - 1], script_substitutions);
      if (scripplet[1] == "=")
        scripplet = responseStr + scripplet[2..length(scripplet)];
      endif
      page_line = {@page_line, scripplet};
      scripplet = "";
    endfor
    if (scripplet == "")
      lineStr = line[closers[$] + closer_length..length(line)];
      if (lineStr != "")
        lineStr = $string_utils:substitute(lineStr, {{"\"", "\\\""}});
        page_line = {@page_line, ((responseStr + "\"") + lineStr) + "\";"};
      endif
    endif
    if (length(page_line))
      page = {@page, "_line_ = \"\";"};
      for l in (page_line)
        page = {@page, l};
      endfor
      page = {@page, "_html_ = {@_html_, _line_};"};
    endif
  else
    page = {@page, ("_html_ = {@_html_, \"" + $string_utils:substitute(line,
{{"
\"", "\\\""}})) + "\"};"};
  endif
endfor
if (scripplet != "")
  return E_INVARG;
endif
page = {@page, "return _html_;"};
player:tell_lines(page);
result = set_verb_code(object, scriptname, page);
return result;
"Last modified Sat Aug 30 18:11:15 2003 CDT by Korbeau (#2).";
 -------------------------------

To use:
    - create a verb & property on an object with the same name (for
instance, "_html" which is the default web page for an object).
    - edit the property so it contains HTML / MOO-script.
    - Call the utility from an eval-prompt.


    That's all folks!  Have a nice weekend,

            - Alexandre Borgia

--=====================_31558967==.ALT-- From lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Wed Sep 3 15:09:10 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:09:10 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1825BF0 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:09:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB89D1A28EB for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:09:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 26417-01-50 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:09:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 46C7438A99 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:09:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from GH208-LIRVIN.accdvm.accd.edu [10.11.36.44] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:07:34 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030903145941.00a8dc98@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:05:09 -0500 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] 1stMondays@AlaMOO Fall Schedule Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" X-archive-position: 902 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Hi Everyone,
 
1stMondays@AlaMOO continues for another season.  1stMondays is a discussion forum for teachers of English with technology, and the focus this Fall will be on articles written in recent jounals available online. 

Next Monday's session (Sept. 8th) will be on e-jounaling and discuss two articles in the current Computers and Composition Online:

"The Year of the Blog: Weblogs in the Writing Classroom", Barclay
Barrios (Rutgers University) http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/barrios/blogs/index.html
and "The Journal and Writing Place", John Scenters-Zapico (University
of Texas at El Paso) http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/Scenters-Zapico/index.htm
 
The session will be held in the AlaMOO Conference Center next Monday 9/8 from 2:00-3:00 CDT.
 
Complete information about this Fall's schedule of sessions and a
helpful guide with everything you need for attending a MOO session in AlaMOO can be found at
 
http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/Mondays.htm
 
I hope to see some of you there this Fall.
 
Yours,
 
Lennie


L. Lennie Irvin
English Instructor, San Antonio College
1300 San Pedro Ave.
San Antonio, TX 78212
Lirvin@accd.edu
http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/lirvin.htm

AlaMOO: http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/index.htm
 From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Mon Sep 8 06:30:27 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Mon, 08 Sep 2003 06:30:27 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD885BAD for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:30:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE101A2FB8 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:30:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 05167-01-60 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:30:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id E3BD638A88 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:30:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.2] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 06:28:52 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030908063419.00a007b0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 06:35:14 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] 1stMondays discussion on blogs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_5517565==.ALT" X-archive-position: 903 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore --=====================_5517565==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Come join the discussion of Barclay Barrios' fantastic article on blogs and John Scenters-Zapico's article on his new software tool The Journal and Writing Place --blogs as journal --blogs as discussion board --blogs as course platform --blogs as something new --The Journal and Writing Place as a tool for a new kind of "dialogic" journal "The Year of the Blog: Weblogs in the Writing Classroom", Barclay Barrios (Rutgers University) http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/barrios/blogs/index.html and "The Journal and Writing Place", John Scenters-Zapico (University of Texas at El Paso) http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/Scenters-Zapico/index.htm both from Computers and Composition Online The session will be held in the AlaMOO Conference Center from 2:00-3:00 CDT. Complete information and a helpful guide with everything you need for attending a MOO session in AlaMOO can be found at http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/Mondays.htm See you in AlaMOO! Lennie Irvin San Antonio College cross posted to techrhet list --=====================_5517565==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Come join the discussion of Barclay Barrios' fantastic article on blogs and John Scenters-Zapico's article on his new software tool The Journal and Writing Place
--blogs as journal
--blogs as discussion board
--blogs as course platform
--blogs as something new
--The Journal and Writing Place as a tool for a new kind of "dialogic" journal
 
"The Year of the Blog: Weblogs in the Writing Classroom", Barclay
Barrios (Rutgers University)
http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/barrios/blogs/index.html
and "The Journal and Writing Place", John Scenters-Zapico (University
of Texas at El Paso)
http://www.bgsu.edu/cconline/Scenters-Zapico/index.htm
both from Computers and Composition Online

The session will be held in the AlaMOO Conference Center from 2:00-3:00 CDT.
 
Complete information and a helpful guide with everything you need for attending a MOO session in AlaMOO can be found at

http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/Mondays.htm
 
See you in AlaMOO!
 
Lennie Irvin
San Antonio College


cross posted to techrhet list
--=====================_5517565==.ALT-- From manitoba98xp@hotmail.com Tue Sep 9 17:16:38 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:16:38 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B585BDB for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:16:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFF81A0C33 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:16:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 00752-01-75 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:16:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law15-dav45.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.22.17]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883EE38D3A for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:42:44 -0700 Received: from 24.100.217.71 by law15-dav45.law15.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:42:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.100.217.71] X-Originating-Email: [manitoba98xp@hotmail.com] From: "Manitoba98" To: Subject: [encore] enCore XPress Problem Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:42:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01C376F9.C6BC7680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2003 21:42:44.0190 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D575FE0:01C3771B] X-archive-position: 904 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: manitoba98xp@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: manitoba98xp@hotmail.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C376F9.C6BC7680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am running an enCore MOO with WinMOO, and Apache web server. When I = connect with a Telnet or MOO client it works. I try to use XPress, and = the login page works, but when I login it tells me that I am not logged = in. If I am attempting to log in, cookies are disabled. I check, and = cookies are enabled. LinguaMOO works, why won't this?!? ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C376F9.C6BC7680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am running an enCore MOO with WinMOO, = and Apache=20 web server. When I connect with a Telnet or MOO client it = works. I try=20 to use XPress, and the login page works, but when I login it tells = me that=20 I am not logged in. If I am attempting to log in, cookies are disabled. = I check,=20 and cookies are enabled. LinguaMOO works, why won't=20 this?!?
------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C376F9.C6BC7680-- From fox@vader.aacc.edu Tue Sep 9 17:42:09 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:49:28 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FDCF5C25 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:42:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B291A0D66 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:42:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 04460-01-57 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:42:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vader.aacc.edu (vader.aacc.edu [12.167.138.28]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187B438DA4 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:24:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vader.aacc.edu (IDENT:1xI0PUnDJseGRPG/sRjlz2qzo73R73C9@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vader.aacc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h89MObZD002351; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:24:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (fox@localhost) by vader.aacc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h89MObPr002347; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:24:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:24:36 -0400 (EDT) From: fox@vader.aacc.edu To: Manitoba98 Cc: encore@utdallas.edu Subject: [encore] Re: enCore XPress Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 905 X-Approved-By: cynthiah@utdallas.edu X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: fox@vader.aacc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: fox@vader.aacc.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Manitoba98 wrote: > I am running an enCore MOO with WinMOO, and Apache web server. When I > connect with a Telnet or MOO client it works. I try to use XPress, and > the login page works, but when I login it tells me that I am not logged > in. If I am attempting to log in, cookies are disabled. I check, and > cookies are enabled. LinguaMOO works, why won't this?!? What's the address and port # for your MOO's web port? Which browser, which version, and which OS are you using? -- Remember: i before e, except on Unix machines. From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Wed Sep 10 06:10:04 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:10:05 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B223D5BAD for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:10:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E92A1A035D for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:10:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 07072-01-55 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:10:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 4422538AA0 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:10:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.47] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:08:31 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030910061401.009fe610@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:14:59 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: enCore XPress Problem In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 906 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Check that the base URL is correct also when you @configure. I think I had the same problem starting out also... . Lennie At 06:24 PM 9/9/03 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Manitoba98 wrote: > > > I am running an enCore MOO with WinMOO, and Apache web server. When I > > connect with a Telnet or MOO client it works. I try to use XPress, and > > the login page works, but when I login it tells me that I am not logged > > in. If I am attempting to log in, cookies are disabled. I check, and > > cookies are enabled. LinguaMOO works, why won't this?!? > >What's the address and port # for your MOO's web port? > >Which browser, which version, and which OS are you using? > >-- >Remember: i before e, except on Unix machines. From rselfe@mtu.edu Wed Sep 10 09:55:11 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:55:11 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872B95BAD for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:55:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D601C1A12D2 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 17138-01-63 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:55:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailoff.mtu.edu (mailoff.mtu.edu [141.219.70.111]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA3138A9E for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:55:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from node21. (node21.mtu.edu [141.219.68.121]) by mailoff.mtu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h8AEt2R04858 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node9 (node9.mtu.edu [141.219.68.109]) by node21. (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8AEt2t12200 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:55:02 -0400 Received: from campus4.mtu.edu ([141.219.70.7]) by node9 (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from node2. (node2.mtu.edu [141.219.68.102]) by mail.mtu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8AEt1L03622 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [141.219.148.69] (beserker.hu.mtu.edu [141.219.148.69]) by node2. (8.12.8/8.12.3/auth_ssl.mc v1.0) with ESMTP id h8AEt1JY008101 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:55:01 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rselfe@email.mtu.edu Message-Id: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:59:35 -0400 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Dickie Selfe Subject: [encore] synchronous discussion claims Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-archive-position: 907 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: rselfe@mtu.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: rselfe@mtu.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore I know that this is primarily a technical list and appreciated as such. But I have a theory/research question that I'm sure many of you can help with. What articles (or presentations) can you point me toward that make claims about the efficacy of synchronous conferencing in the teaching of English studies (writing?) classes. I'm just as interested in claims that were made back in the '80s about early text-based systems and LAN systems like Daedalus. I want to review what claims were made and who made them. If you don't think this is appropriate for list discussion, please send your comments to me personally. I'll collate and put them somewhere folks can see them on the web. 'Preciate it. -- Dickie Selfe (OO) Director of CCCCCCC LLLL iiii Center for Computer-Assisted Language Instruction CCCCCCCCC LLLL iiii +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ CCCC ccccc LLLL iiii 138 Walker Arts and Humanities Center CCCC cc LLLL iiii Michigan Technological University CCCC ccccc LLLL iiii Houghton, MI 49931 906-487-3225 CCCCCCCCC LLLLLLLLL CCCCCCC LLLLLLLLL "It's hard work to be a good geek!" -- Noel Maddy . From raking@office.uncg.edu Wed Sep 10 11:26:15 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:33:43 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374895BAD for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:26:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB2B1A16F1 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:09:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 25213-01-35 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:09:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.uncg.edu (external-gw.uncg.edu [152.13.2.70]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1169538CF2 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:49:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from office.uncg.edu (office.uncg.edu [152.13.5.17]) by smtp.uncg.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8AFnpwq008821 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNCG3-MTA by office.uncg.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:49:51 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.2 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:49:22 -0400 From: "Robert King" To: Subject: [encore] Re: synchronous discussion claims Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.2(snapshot 20021217) (external-gw) X-archive-position: 908 X-Approved-By: cynthiah@utdallas.edu X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: raking@office.uncg.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: raking@office.uncg.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Dickie,=20 I'm very interested in your question and I would welcome conversation on = this list about theory/research. Let us know when you have some responses.= =20 Although not strictly about the teaching of writing, a colleague of mine = in Curriculum and Instruction is in the midst of a study comparing = asynchronous vs. synchronous discussion. It's a good research design = (everything is constant in her delivery of the class except that some = students are using discussion boards and others chat). I'm looking forward = to seeing what she comes up with. Cheers, Bob ______________________________________ Bob King eLearning Consultant=20 School of Education The University of North Carolina at Greensboro bob_king@uncg.edu (336) 256-0415 >>> Dickie Selfe 09/10/03 10:59AM >>> I know that this is primarily a technical list and appreciated as=20 such. But I have a theory/research question that I'm sure many of you=20 can help with. What articles (or presentations) can you point me toward that make=20 claims about the efficacy of synchronous conferencing in the teaching=20 of English studies (writing?) classes. I'm just as interested in claims that were made back in the '80s=20 about early text-based systems and LAN systems like Daedalus. I want=20 to review what claims were made and who made them. If you don't think this is appropriate for list discussion, please=20 send your comments to me personally. I'll collate and put them=20 somewhere folks can see them on the web. 'Preciate it. --=20 Dickie Selfe (OO) Director of CCCCCCC LLLL iiii Center for Computer-Assisted Language Instruction CCCCCCCCC LLLL iiii +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ CCCC ccccc LLLL iiii 138 Walker Arts and Humanities Center CCCC cc LLLL iiii Michigan Technological University CCCC ccccc LLLL iiii Houghton, MI 49931 906-487-3225 CCCCCCCCC LLLLLLLLL CCCCCCC LLLLLLLLL "It's hard work to be a good geek!" -- Noel Maddy . From mlamarcus@eurekanet.com Wed Sep 10 12:26:51 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:51 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985EB5BAD for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16FD31A13EF for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 03611-01-85 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:26:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from oak1a.cats.ohiou.edu (oak.cats.ohiou.edu [132.235.8.44]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B372038AB9 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:24:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 132.235.45.232 by pm2 (PureMessage); Wed Sep 10 12:42:45 2003 Received: from [132.235.45.232] (dhcp-045-232.cns.ohiou.edu [132.235.45.232]) by oak1a.cats.ohiou.edu (8.12.8-OU/8.12.8-OU) with ESMTP id h8AGgUnv583159 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:42:30 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:42:29 -0400 Subject: [encore] Re: enCore XPress Problem From: To: Encore Development Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3146042550_767762" X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=IIII, Probability=4%, Report='EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION, HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE, IN_REP_TO, LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2, NO_REAL_NAME, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, USER_AGENT, __CT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __EVITE_CTYPE, __HAS_MSGID, __IN_REP_TO, __MIME_HTML, __MIME_VERSION, __SANE_MSGID, __TAG_EXISTS_BODY, __TAG_EXISTS_HEAD, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __UNUSABLE_MSGID, __USER_AGENT, __USER_AGENT_ENTOURAGE' X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, PureMessage (score=0, required 5) X-PMX-Information: http://www.cns.ohiou.edu/email/spam-virus.html X-PMX-Version: 4.0.3.73602 (pm2) X-PMX-Start: Wed Sep 10 12:42:30 2003 X-PMX-Stop: Wed Sep 10 12:42:45 2003 X-archive-position: 909 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: mlamarcus@eurekanet.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: mlamarcus@eurekanet.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3146042550_767762 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I get this error when I=B9m not =B3actually=B2 connected. Usually trying again a few times will work. We=B9ve had this problem with our Moo, in multiple browsers, on multiple servers, for several years, now. Emily Marcus Ohio University 740.597.2521 marcuse@ohio.edu on 9/9/03 17:42, Manitoba98 at manitoba98xp@hotmail.com wrote: > I am running an enCore MOO with WinMOO, and Apache web server. When I con= nect > with a Telnet or MOO client it works. I try to use XPress, and the login = page > works, but when I login it tells me that I am not logged in. If I am > attempting to log in, cookies are disabled. I check, and cookies are enab= led. > LinguaMOO works, why won't this?!? >=20 --=20 SCIENTIA EST POTENTIA=20 --B_3146042550_767762 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [encore] enCore XPress Problem I get this error when I’m not “actually= 221; connected.  Usually trying again a few times will work.  We&#= 8217;ve had this problem with our Moo, in multiple browsers, on multiple ser= vers, for several years, now.  

Emily Marcus
Ohio University
740.597.2521
marcuse@ohio.edu



on 9/9/03 17:42, Manitoba98 at manitoba98xp@hotmail.com wrote:

I am running an enCore= MOO with WinMOO, and Apache web server. When I connect with a Telnet or MOO= client it works. I try to use XPress, and the login page works, but when I = login it tells me that I am not logged in. If I am attempting to log in, coo= kies are disabled. I check, and cookies are enabled. LinguaMOO works, why wo= n't this?!?



--
SCIENTIA EST POTENTIA
--B_3146042550_767762-- From jeank@u.arizona.edu Tue Sep 16 14:00:27 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:00:28 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5AF5BAD for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:00:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DDA1A10C7 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:00:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24651-01-98 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:00:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtpgate.email.arizona.edu (deagol.email.Arizona.EDU [128.196.133.142]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F46C38AD3 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:41:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from JEAN2 (unknown [128.196.59.137]) by smtpgate.email.arizona.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id A053B4738F for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:41:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <00e701c37c80$ef96c740$893bc480@faccenter.arizona.edu> From: "Jean Kreis" To: Subject: [encore] Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:32:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C37C46.42E86FB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at email.arizona.edu X-archive-position: 910 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: jeank@u.arizona.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jeank@u.arizona.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C37C46.42E86FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This semester has brought four instances of students requesting that I = recycle older essays that were written and posted in the OldPuebloMOo as = an exercise for their freshman English classes. The students have = discovered that if they put their names into a google search, they can = find all of their MOO documents as can anyone else.=20 In this time of identity theft and students-turned-soldiers-gone-to-war, = they are concerned about the public character of these past personal = essays. I can recycle the notes and instruct teachers on the MOO of the public = character of MOO objects; however, search engines cache the documents. I = have no ability to delete those. I've worked with colleagues and have = found the meta tag=20 What I would like to know is: Is there some way that I can program that metatag to be generated into = all of the MOO objects so that none of the MOO notes would be picked up = by the search engines? Has anyone else come across this problem before? thank you, Jean alias jeanaroo, OPM Wizard Jean Kreis, M.Ed., M.A. Web-Based Instructional Support University of Arizona CCIT 337 PO Box 210073 1077 N. Highland Ave. Tucson, AZ 85721-0073 phone 520.626.8071 fax 520.626.8220 opm@u.arizona.edu ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C37C46.42E86FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This semester has brought four = instances of=20 students requesting that I recycle older essays that were written and = posted in=20 the OldPuebloMOo as an exercise for their freshman English classes. The = students=20 have discovered that if they put their names into a google search, they = can find=20 all of their MOO documents as can anyone else.
 
In this time of identity theft and=20 students-turned-soldiers-gone-to-war, they are concerned about the = public=20 character of these past personal essays.
 
I can recycle the notes and instruct = teachers on=20 the MOO of the public character of MOO objects; however, search engines = cache=20 the documents. I have no ability to delete those. I've worked with = colleagues=20 and have found the meta tag
<META NAME=3D"robots"=20 CONTENT=3D"NOINDEX,NOFOLLOW">
 
What I would like to know = is:
Is there some way that I can program = that metatag=20 to be generated into all of the MOO objects so that none of the MOO = notes=20 would be picked up by the search engines?
 
Has anyone else come across this = problem=20 before?
 
thank you,
Jean
 
alias jeanaroo, OPM Wizard
 
Jean Kreis, M.Ed., M.A.
Web-Based = Instructional=20 Support
University of Arizona
CCIT 337
PO Box 210073
1077 N. = Highland Ave.
Tucson, AZ 85721-0073
phone 520.626.8071
fax=20 520.626.8220
opm@u.arizona.edu
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_01C37C46.42E86FB0-- From cynthiah@utdallas.edu Tue Sep 16 17:29:24 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:29:24 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from smtp1.utdallas.edu (smtp1-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.5]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E485BAD for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:29:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c68.113.221.149.ts46v-03.dntn.tx.charter.com [68.113.221.149]) by smtp1.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C66388D44; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:29:24 -0500 (CDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:29:21 -0500 Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines From: Cynthia Haynes To: , encore Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00e701c37c80$ef96c740$893bc480@faccenter.arizona.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 911 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: cynthiah@utdallas.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: cynthiah@utdallas.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Jean, This may not be the optimal solution on a large scale, but students may encrypt note objects to be readable by certain players only (or solely by themselves). If an encrypted note object is picked up on a search engine, when the link is clicked a message appears that says this note is written in a code they can't read...which will, of course, confuse the web surfer. But the bottom line is that the text will never show. The cache issue then would 'seem' to be moot if the page was not indexed to begin with, but it would be interesting to test. encrypt with decrypt see "help encrypt" and "help keys" Syntax: encrypt with Restricts the set of players who can read the named note or letter to those for whom the given key expression is true. See 'help keys' for information on the syntax and semantics of key expressions. Only the owner of a note may do this. Best, Cynthia __Cynthia Haynes, Director of Rhetoric and Writing___________________ University of Texas at Dallas cynthiah@utdallas.edu School of Arts & Humanities http://www.utdallas.edu/~cynthiah PO Box 830688-JO 31 http://lingua.utdallas.edu:7000 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (O)972-883-6340 (F)972-883-2989 From jung@uib.no Tue Sep 16 22:46:23 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:46:23 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C075BAD for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:46:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7861A161B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:46:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 27270-01-58 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:46:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rolf.uib.no (rolf.uib.no [129.177.30.19]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF1738A98 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:46:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alfred.uib.no (smtp.uib.no) [129.177.30.120] by rolf.uib.no with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19zTGR-0005KA-00; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:45:59 +0200 Received: from tunnel-44-41.vpn.uib.no (Daniel2667.uib.no) [129.177.44.41] by smtp.uib.no with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19zTGR-0004bd-00; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:45:59 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.8.2.20030917035331.00bed7d0@alf.uib.no> X-Sender: fafdj@alf.uib.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.8 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:45:49 +0200 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Daniel Jung Subject: [encore] colors Cc: fredrik@lingo.uib.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-checked-clean: by exiscan on rolf X-Scanner: d0ac04b83ce49976a8c44053e0514720 http://tjinfo.uib.no/virus.html X-UiB-SpamFlag: NO UIB: -9.0 hits, 8.0 required X-UiB-SpamReport: spamassassin found; * -9.0 -- Message received from UIB X-archive-position: 912 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: jung@uib.no Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jung@uib.no List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Hi all, I had a few complaints from my users about the small number and seemingly odd choice (so they say) of supported colors in encore web objects. So I made a tool which lets the user choose from a wide range of colors, and made a downloadable package of it, see http://lingo.uib.no/daniel/colors/. Features: * All of the 140 literal web colors are supported. They are put in four groups: gray, red, green, blue. The number of colors can be easily reduced to what suits you best. * The color object displays itself as a colored table with all available colors and their names as well as their hexadecimal code. The page body is generated on the fly by default, but may be fetched from a property as well. * A verb takes a list of colors and splits it into four lists depending on their hexadecimal value: grays, reds, greens, blues; these are sorted by lightness. * The object serves as the source for the `edit apperance' section in the encore object editor. There, each form select has four OPTGROUPs for easier navigation. * I made changements to that section so that the chosen colors appear in a table with their color value as background (see screenshot). * I included a popup window link to show all available colors in the MOO by calling the object :_html (see screenshot). * Besides itself, the object only affects one verb in the encore object editor. * Once run and used, it can easily be de-installed. You have to have back-uped this one verb only; this is done in the package. One should then check for colors actually used and keep them (adding them to the original object carrying the colors). * An extra verb checks the number and occurences of every color used on the currently five color properties on encore web class objects in the MOO, i.e., web_text_color, web_link_color, web_vlink_color, web_alink_color, web_bgcolor (in case you may find that interesting). * If one should decide to include more customizable colored items (headers etc.) after a while, this would mean changing one property on the color object only, as I kept it as object oriented as possible. This would have immediate effect on the edit_appearance section and on the color searcher. I have tried this package in two MOOs, and it works like a charm. Please have a look at a screenshot and the code at http://lingo.uib.no/daniel/colors/. You may use it, and/or may comment on it (as I am thankful for corrections and other input). Thanks, and enjoy: - Daniel From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Wed Sep 17 05:38:11 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:11 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960745BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B021A18D6 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 15577-01-93 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id BAC5638A90 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:38:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.36] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:36:36 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:43:02 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines In-Reply-To: <00e701c37c80$ef96c740$893bc480@faccenter.arizona.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_56410301==.ALT" X-archive-position: 913 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore --=====================_56410301==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Since I have past freshman essays also archived in AlaMOO, I am interested in this issue. I'm not sure that Cynthia's solution is workable, since it would take too long to implement and it restricts the open nature of objects and text within the MOO. I like Jean's solution of programming the metatag she mentioned into probably the _HTML property, but it would take someone like Alex or Jan to do it. I haven't done it to this point, but I also plan to have students sign a release of some sorts allowing me to archive their work in the MOO. Thanks for bringing up this issue! Lennie P.S. Daniel's color solution is fantastic! At 11:32 AM 9/16/03 -0700, you wrote: >This semester has brought four instances of students requesting that I >recycle older essays that were written and posted in the OldPuebloMOo as >an exercise for their freshman English classes. The students have >discovered that if they put their names into a google search, they can >find all of their MOO documents as can anyone else. > >In this time of identity theft and students-turned-soldiers-gone-to-war, >they are concerned about the public character of these past personal essays. > >I can recycle the notes and instruct teachers on the MOO of the public >character of MOO objects; however, search engines cache the documents. I >have no ability to delete those. I've worked with colleagues and have >found the meta tag > > >What I would like to know is: >Is there some way that I can program that metatag to be generated into all >of the MOO objects so that none of the MOO notes would be picked up by the >search engines? > >Has anyone else come across this problem before? > >thank you, >Jean > >alias jeanaroo, OPM Wizard > >Jean Kreis, M.Ed., M.A. >Web-Based Instructional Support >University of Arizona >CCIT 337 >PO Box 210073 >1077 N. Highland Ave. >Tucson, AZ 85721-0073 >phone 520.626.8071 >fax 520.626.8220 >opm@u.arizona.edu --=====================_56410301==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Since I have past freshman essays also archived in AlaMOO, I am interested in this issue.  I'm not sure that Cynthia's solution is workable, since it would take too long to implement and it restricts the open nature of objects and text within the MOO.

I like Jean's solution of programming the metatag she mentioned into probably the _HTML property, but it would take someone like Alex or Jan to do it.

I haven't done it to this point, but I also plan to have students sign a release of some sorts allowing me to archive their work in the MOO.

Thanks for bringing up this issue!

Lennie

P.S. Daniel's color solution is fantastic!


At 11:32 AM 9/16/03 -0700, you wrote:
This semester has brought four instances of students requesting that I recycle older essays that were written and posted in the OldPuebloMOo as an exercise for their freshman English classes. The students have discovered that if they put their names into a google search, they can find all of their MOO documents as can anyone else.
 
In this time of identity theft and students-turned-soldiers-gone-to-war, they are concerned about the public character of these past personal essays.
 
I can recycle the notes and instruct teachers on the MOO of the public character of MOO objects; however, search engines cache the documents. I have no ability to delete those. I've worked with colleagues and have found the meta tag
<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="NOINDEX,NOFOLLOW">
 
What I would like to know is:
Is there some way that I can program that metatag to be generated into all of the MOO objects so that none of the MOO notes would be picked up by the search engines?
 
Has anyone else come across this problem before?
 
thank you,
Jean
 
alias jeanaroo, OPM Wizard
 
Jean Kreis, M.Ed., M.A.
Web-Based Instructional Support
University of Arizona
CCIT 337
PO Box 210073
1077 N. Highland Ave.
Tucson, AZ 85721-0073
phone 520.626.8071
fax 520.626.8220
opm@u.arizona.edu

--=====================_56410301==.ALT-- From j.a.r.williams@aston.ac.uk Wed Sep 17 05:54:41 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:54:41 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5419B5BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:54:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48371A14AF for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:54:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 16730-01-58 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:54:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hermes.aston.ac.uk (hermes.aston.ac.uk [134.151.79.46]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CA738A8F for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:54:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [134.151.54.90] (helo=heisenberg.aston.ac.uk) by hermes.aston.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 19zZxP-00072p-00 for encore@utdallas.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:54:47 +0100 To: encore@utdallas.edu Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines X-Url: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar X-Attribution: JARW References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> From: John Williams Organization: Aston University Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:54:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> (Lennie Irvin's message of "Wed, 17 Sep 2003 05:43:02 -0700") Message-ID: <874qzbit2b.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 914 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: J.A.R.Williams@aston.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: J.A.R.Williams@aston.ac.uk List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore You should also be aware of the robots.txt file which should sit at the root of the web server and specifies the indexing policy for the web, and is more widely supported than the meta tag. Unfortunately the spider robots which archive the web for search engines can choose to ignore both the tags and the robots.txt file. If you want to really prevent material from being archived by spider robots then you need to have measures on your own server to prevent this - either limiting access to the web to users who have been authenticated in some way, or limiting access to specific domains. If this is unacceptable and the web pages have to be public it is possible (and I do this) to detect robots which ignore the indexing tags or robots.txt file and block them from accessing the web. This works to a point - it only detects them after they have broken the rules once and then prevents further access. I must though admit that I do not allow student generated content for my modules on the public web, not least because the liability issues could get messy and I don't want to have to be concerned about this. Access is always controlled by password. >>>>> "Lennie" == Lennie Irvin writes: Lennie> Since I have past freshman essays also archived in AlaMOO, Lennie> I am interested in this issue. I'm not sure that Lennie> Cynthia's solution is workable, since it would take too Lennie> long to implement and it restricts the open nature of Lennie> objects and text within the MOO. Lennie> I like Jean's solution of programming the metatag she Lennie> mentioned into probably the _HTML property, but it would Lennie> take someone like Alex or Jan to do it. Lennie> I haven't done it to this point, but I also plan to have Lennie> students sign a release of some sorts allowing me to Lennie> archive their work in the MOO. Lennie> Thanks for bringing up this issue! Lennie> Lennie Lennie> P.S. Daniel's color solution is fantastic! Lennie> At 11:32 AM 9/16/03 -0700, you wrote: >> This semester has brought four instances of students requesting >> that I recycle older essays that were written and posted in the >> OldPuebloMOo as an exercise for their freshman English >> classes. The students have discovered that if they put their >> names into a google search, they can find all of their MOO >> documents as can anyone else. >> >> In this time of identity theft and >> students-turned-soldiers-gone-to-war, they are concerned about >> the public character of these past personal essays. >> >> I can recycle the notes and instruct teachers on the MOO of the >> public character of MOO objects; however, search engines cache >> the documents. I have no ability to delete those. I've worked >> with colleagues and have found the meta tag > CONTENT="NOINDEX,NOFOLLOW"> >> >> What I would like to know is: Is there some way that I can >> program that metatag to be generated into all of the MOO >> objects so that none of the MOO notes would be picked up by the >> search engines? >> >> Has anyone else come across this problem before? >> >> thank you, Jean >> >> alias jeanaroo, OPM Wizard >> >> Jean Kreis, M.Ed., M.A. Web-Based Instructional Support >> University of Arizona CCIT 337 PO Box 210073 1077 N. Highland >> Ave. Tucson, AZ 85721-0073 phone 520.626.8071 fax 520.626.8220 >> opm@u.arizona.edu -- Dr. John A.R. Williams Photonics Research Group (http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics) Aston University (http://www.aston.ac.uk) PGP: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar/about/key From Mark.A.ONeil@Dartmouth.EDU Wed Sep 17 07:22:05 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:05 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390345BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6E61A1696 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 20352-01-16 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop018.verizon.net (pop018pub.verizon.net [206.46.170.212]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA90F38A90 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Dartmouth.EDU ([64.222.170.229]) by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20030917122201.DETL11703.pop018.verizon.net@Dartmouth.EDU> for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:22:02 -0400 Subject: [encore] LambdaMoo on OS X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Mark A.O'Neil To: encore@utdallas.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> Message-Id: <8ADF8124-E909-11D7-8299-000A9579F9D2@Dartmouth.EDU> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [64.222.170.229] at Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:01 -0500 X-archive-position: 915 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Mark.A.ONeil@Dartmouth.EDU Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Mark.A.ONeil@Dartmouth.EDU List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Would anyone like to share their notes on getting a successful compile of lambda on OS X - would save me a chunk of time I don't really have at the moment. Already grabbed the binary which is fine, but I am playing with some enhancements and getting a make that is based on the original source to work would be a great beginning.... Thanks all, -m From aborgia@videotron.ca Wed Sep 17 07:39:20 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:20 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9A55BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3AF1A19FB for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 21102-01-46 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from VL-MO-MR004.ip.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B7838A8B for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:39:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alex ([24.200.72.91]) by VL-MO-MR004.ip.videotron.ca (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLC00091Z5HA7@VL-MO-MR004.ip.videotron.ca> for encore@utdallas.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:39:30 -0400 From: Alexandre Borgia Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines To: enCore Message-id: <000b01c37d18$bd7d04c0$6900a8c0@alex> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> <874qzbit2b.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> X-archive-position: 916 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: aborgia@videotron.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-to: aborgia@videotron.ca List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Hi, enCore's content is public by default. To make it unavailable (ie: the MOO is not browsable), you may @configure and set "HTTP/0.9" to off. This way web crawler bots won't even be able to reach your pages. Now what I think would be a somewhat better solution is to extend the "allow_anonymous" flag which is available for CGI Applications to all MOO objects. This would be done by modifying a little $encore_Web_utils:anonymous_access. This way you could choose which content is freely available or contain secure data. A key point is that bots won't find pages that are not reachable or that are not linked from a public page (they can follow links, but can't discover pages "out of nowhere"). As for pages already cached - my guess is that they will expire sooner or later. I don't think all search engines cache pages neither. It may be possible to contact those you know to have them in memory and ask them politely to remove this content:) - Alexandre Borgia From marcyb@umich.edu Wed Sep 17 07:44:56 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:44:56 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B3C5BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:44:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAA01A1A12 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:44:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 21628-01-12 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:44:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from straightnochaser.mr.itd.umich.edu (straightnochaser.mr.itd.umich.edu [141.211.125.37]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E2338A92 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:44:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [172.16.1.33] (adsl-68-21-35-82.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net [68.21.35.82]) by straightnochaser.mr.itd.umich.edu (3.7s) with ESMTP id h8HCiqK10028 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:44:53 -0400 From: Marcy Bauman To: encore@utdallas.edu Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines Message-ID: <2931371554.1063788293@[172.16.1.33]> In-Reply-To: <000b01c37d18$bd7d04c0$6900a8c0@alex> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-archive-position: 917 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: marcyb@umich.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: marcyb@umich.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore This isn't a technical point, but I *did* have a former student get very upset about seeing his old essays when he searched for his name in Google. I took the essays off my website, as he requested, but obviously I couldn't get them out of the search engines. When he threatened to call his lawyer, I called mine: I consulted legal counsel here at the University of Michigan. The attorney I spoke to was of the opinion that I'd done everything I could do, and the student would just have to live with the fact that the items were in the caches. These were papers from 1996, btw -- back before there *were* search engines. Nowadays if I were in the situation of having students post works that would be public, I'd warn them beforehand. FWIW, Marcy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Marcy Bauman Media Consultant College of Pharmacy University of Michigan 734-647-2227 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Wed Sep 17 08:21:04 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:21:04 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2485BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:21:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227341A1ACE for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:21:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 23389-01-34 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 53FB738A8B for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:21:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from GH208-LIRVIN.accdvm.accd.edu [10.11.36.44] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:19:30 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917081028.00a91c38@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:16:44 -0500 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines In-Reply-To: <000b01c37d18$bd7d04c0$6900a8c0@alex> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> <874qzbit2b.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 918 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Let me double-check something I think I am getting here. John has mentioned that he publishes student content to the web only within password protected environments. If I set the HTTP/0.9 to OFF, I have made the MOO a password protected environment. True? I may have restricted browsing of the MOO and I may have restricted direct projecting of MOO pages to the browser with the full URL of the moo object or room, but I have restricted nothing from within the password protected universe of the MOO. And... I have prevented search engine spiders from delving into the MOO to reference any moo pages inside the MOO? Am I getting this correctly? Thanks, Lennie At 08:39 AM 9/17/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > > enCore's content is public by default. To make it unavailable (ie: the >MOO is not browsable), you may @configure and set "HTTP/0.9" to off. This >way web crawler bots won't even be able to reach your pages. > > Now what I think would be a somewhat better solution is to extend the >"allow_anonymous" flag which is available for CGI Applications to all MOO >objects. This would be done by modifying a little >$encore_Web_utils:anonymous_access. This way you could choose which content >is freely available or contain secure data. > > A key point is that bots won't find pages that are not reachable or that >are not linked from a public page (they can follow links, but can't discover >pages "out of nowhere"). > > > As for pages already cached - my guess is that they will expire sooner >or later. I don't think all search engines cache pages neither. It may be >possible to contact those you know to have them in memory and ask them >politely to remove this content:) > > > - Alexandre Borgia L. Lennie Irvin English Instructor, San Antonio College 1300 San Pedro Ave. San Antonio, TX 78212 Lirvin@accd.edu http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/lirvin.htm AlaMOO: http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/index.htm From fox@vader.aacc.edu Wed Sep 17 08:27:42 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:42:05 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41305BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:27:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8354D1A016E for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:27:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 23389-01-67 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:27:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vader.aacc.edu (vader.aacc.cc.md.us [12.167.138.28]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C0138A8F for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:27:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vader.aacc.edu (IDENT:oHmZ0Gd6ejRy9LaAV9/GfFVyRTv5c9+g@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vader.aacc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8HDRQWi001445; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:27:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (fox@localhost) by vader.aacc.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h8HDRMLn001441; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:27:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:27:22 -0400 (EDT) From: PauAmma To: Alexandre Borgia Cc: enCore Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines In-Reply-To: <000b01c37d18$bd7d04c0$6900a8c0@alex> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 919 X-Approved-By: cynthiah@utdallas.edu X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: fox@vader.aacc.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: fox@vader.aacc.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Alexandre Borgia wrote: > As for pages already cached - my guess is that they will expire sooner > or later. I don't think all search engines cache pages neither. It may be > possible to contact those you know to have them in memory and ask them > politely to remove this content:) http://www.google.com/remove.html http://www.altavista.com/help/search/faq_web#6 (couldn't find something similar for http://www.yahoo.com/) http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/robots.html -- Remember: i before e, except on Unix machines. From jung@uib.no Wed Sep 17 08:48:59 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:48:59 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B295BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:48:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4C61A1A72 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:48:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 24680-01-93 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:48:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rolf.uib.no (rolf.uib.no [129.177.30.19]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD83238A99 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:48:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alfred.uib.no (smtp.uib.no) [129.177.30.120] by rolf.uib.no for encore@utdallas.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19zcfj-0004Nb-00; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:48:43 +0200 Received: from tunnel-44-41.vpn.uib.no (Daniel2667.uib.no) [129.177.44.41] by smtp.uib.no for encore@utdallas.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19zcfj-0002fb-00; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:48:43 +0200 Message-Id: <5.2.0.8.2.20030917154714.00c16ee0@alf.uib.no> X-Sender: fafdj@alf.uib.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.8 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:48:34 +0200 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Daniel Jung Subject: [encore] Re: Trouble installing colors In-Reply-To: <20030917133310.6575.qmail@web42003.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-checked-clean: by exiscan on rolf X-Scanner: 51b46f3f76ddcf466f48a27d2323595e http://tjinfo.uib.no/virus.html X-UiB-SpamFlag: NO UIB: -9.0 hits, 8.0 required X-UiB-SpamReport: spamassassin found; * -9.0 -- Message received from UIB X-archive-position: 920 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: jung@uib.no Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jung@uib.no List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore At 15:33 17.09.2003, you wrote: >Hey Daniel, > >I started to install your colors patch to EnCore and ran into a problem >early on. I started by creating the first verb (@create $thing named >colors:colors) and then had a problem on the first color property. I think I forgot to have the patch corify the object. Please `@corify colors as colors' in case you have them in your pocket, or `@corify #166 as colors' if you haven't and the color object number is #166. I am sorry I didn't think so far. I just changed it in the package. - Daniel From jeank@u.arizona.edu Wed Sep 17 10:22:19 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:22:19 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF665BAD for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:22:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAADF1A1512 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:22:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02871-01-52 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:22:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2FE38A8F for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:22:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dialup-65.58.130.237.dial1.phoenix1.level3.net ([65.58.130.237] helo=slave) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19ze8F-0006hi-00 for encore@utdallas.edu; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:22:15 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01c37d2f$020ac120$0300005a@WinProxy> From: "Jean Kreis" To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030917053102.00a32450@accdvm.accd.edu> <874qzbit2b.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> <000b01c37d18$bd7d04c0$6900a8c0@alex> Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:18:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-archive-position: 921 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: jeank@u.arizona.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jeank@u.arizona.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Everyone, thank you for your numerous approaches. We'll sit down and see what works best with our environment at the University of Arizona. After we apply it and observe the results for a bit, I'll probably report back to here our findings. thank you again! Jean Jean Kreis, M.Ed., M.A. University of Arizona Web-Based Instructional Support CCIT 337 Phone: 520.626.8071 FAX: 520.626.8220 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandre Borgia" To: "enCore" Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:39 AM Subject: [encore] Re: Privacy Issues & Caching on Search Engines > Hi, > > enCore's content is public by default. To make it unavailable (ie: the > MOO is not browsable), you may @configure and set "HTTP/0.9" to off. This > way web crawler bots won't even be able to reach your pages. > > Now what I think would be a somewhat better solution is to extend the > "allow_anonymous" flag which is available for CGI Applications to all MOO > objects. This would be done by modifying a little > $encore_Web_utils:anonymous_access. This way you could choose which content > is freely available or contain secure data. > > A key point is that bots won't find pages that are not reachable or that > are not linked from a public page (they can follow links, but can't discover > pages "out of nowhere"). > > > As for pages already cached - my guess is that they will expire sooner > or later. I don't think all search engines cache pages neither. It may be > possible to contact those you know to have them in memory and ask them > politely to remove this content:) > > > - Alexandre Borgia > > > > From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Fri Sep 19 05:41:33 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:41:33 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310825BE3 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:41:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012A01A2EB1 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:41:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 11219-01-89 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:41:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id EC63538A8C for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:41:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.25] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:39:59 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919053432.00a36ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:46:21 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Login issues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 922 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore I've recently has a few students come to me with some login issues I have not experienced before, and I was hoping some of you might have some suggestions or answers: Student 1) Can't login to the MOO from home, even after downloading JAVA. He has Windows XP and uses AOL. Has anyone else experienced AOL access problems? Other than the Virtual Machine/JAVA issue, are there any other XP issues that potentially can cause problems? Student 2) Can't access the MOO. We think it may be due to a home firewall set up he has. Has anyone else experienced access difficulties due to firewalls and what is the solution? Student 3) She goes to a public library to access the MOO. When she logs in from this location, it takes twenty to thirty minutes to fully login. She eventually gets in and once in is able to operate at normal speed; it is just the initial log in that takes forever. From campus, she gets in normally. What would be slowing down the initial login like that? It seems to me that it might be nice to have a collaborative help page for login troubles. I am happy to act as the collector of these login solutions and publish a page that others could link to. I already have a Login Trouble page, but it doesn't cover the problems I am seeing here: http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/logintrouble.htm Thanks, Lennie From cynthiah@utdallas.edu Fri Sep 19 11:36:13 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:36:13 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from smtp1.utdallas.edu (smtp1-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.5]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD925BAD for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:36:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c68.113.221.149.ts46v-03.dntn.tx.charter.com [68.113.221.149]) by smtp1.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C454D388CA2; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:36:12 -0500 (CDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:36:11 -0500 Subject: [encore] Re: Login issues From: Cynthia Haynes To: , encore Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919053432.00a36ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 923 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: cynthiah@utdallas.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: cynthiah@utdallas.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Lennie, Student 1 using AOL may just need to test logging in with a different browser than the AOL web interface. They don't HAVE to use AOL's interface just because that's their internet provider, right? Student 2 most likely does have a firewall issue, and if he doesn't want to disable it in order to access systems like the MOO, then he won't be able to do so from his setup at home. Student 3 in the library may have a combination of firewall and packet shaper barrier. If she is eventually able to get logged in, that leads me more to the packet shaper possibility. This is a program that identifies telnet connections that download illegal files, such as music files, and then prevents them from doing so. What happens to the MOO in that case is that each connection involves a telnet connection to your telnet port, so it has to test each one against this parameter of whether or not it's downloading files...so it takes awhile, then when it says, "ok this is an ok connection to allow through," it does. This is probably a silly way of explaining how this works, but we experienced this with Lingua MOO a few years ago, and our IR people had to tweak the settings on the packet shaper to ignore telnet connections to our MOO ports, which isn't easy apparently. It took some back and forth exchanges with our sys admin to get it settled. Then even after it was working fine, if we had any sort of power interruption and the MOO server had to be restarted, this packet shaper system would restart with the old settings and our lag would come back. So, we had to ask them to write a script to reset the settings on the shaper so as not to have to worry about this when/if the box had to be rebooted for whatever reason. It's all working smoothly now. All this to say some of it may be on their end, some of it may be on your end at your university if this packet shaper software is the gatekeeper. Best, Cynthia __Cynthia Haynes, Director of Rhetoric and Writing___________________ University of Texas at Dallas cynthiah@utdallas.edu School of Arts & Humanities http://www.utdallas.edu/~cynthiah PO Box 830688-JO 31 http://lingua.utdallas.edu:7000 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (O)972-883-6340 (F)972-883-2989 From lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Fri Sep 19 14:17:50 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:17:50 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCB035BAD for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:17:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC9C1A1CBF for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:17:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 16027-01-55 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:17:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id BE25B38A92 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:17:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from GH208-LIRVIN.accdvm.accd.edu [10.11.36.44] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:16:04 CDT Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919140049.0255e698@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:13:13 -0500 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: Login issues In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030919132721.01c3b6b0@popw.c2i.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919053432.00a36ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 924 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Thanks for the help and suggestions with these login headaches. I have already warned two students about the dangers of AOLs browser. Cynthia, you scare me with your story of the "packet shaper barrier." It sounds like the library connection my student student was using must have had one of these packet shaper barriers installed. I'm a bit concerned about the potential problem from these packet shaper barriers, so I have a couple of questions: 1--Did the outside site containing the packet shaping barrier slow down the Lingua server? 2--Or did the Lingua UTDallas folks also have this barrier software and you had to make adjustments to minimize its affects on the mooserver? I guess I'm asking whether the problem was coming from outside due to the barrier or inside due to the barrier? Or both? 3--If this problem was coming from outside, would other EnCore MOOs be vulnerable to this problem as well? 4--You mention about how your IR folks had to "tweak the settings on the packet shaper to ignore telnet connections to our MOO ports." Do we all need to do this? Did the tweaking affect telnet access to LinguaMOO by a traditional moo client? Sorry for all the questions. If any of you have specific instructions for how to correct login problems--such as a how to adjust firewall setting to allow EnCore access, or how to set up Internet Explorer on you home machine if you are an AOL user, or anything else--I will add these to my Login Trouble page. http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/logintrouble.htm Have a great weekend! Lennie At 01:47 PM 9/19/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hei, Lenny. My own students just made a test round this past week, and I >had two that raised new issues. Now if I can only remember what they were >. . . :-) > >For one, he was using IE on Windows XP, and even after he checked his java >and cookie settings--they were correct, btw--he'd be bounced away from the >MOO at the login page. Interestingly, when he UNchecked his java >settings, then REchecked those boxes, the problem cleared up and he was >able to log in. > >A second user was trying to access with her new Dell, using a current >version of IE. But her java was faulty. She downloaded java from Sun, >and the problem was resolved. We knew that earlier releases of XP/2000 >were shipped without solid java support because Microsoft was battling >with Sun, but that was resolved ages ago, and the new systems were >supposedly shipping with full java packages again. It seems, however, >that there are still a few bad apples floating around. > >For the firewall issue, if it's the firewall setting associated with IE, >he may just need to tinker with the setting. If, however, he's using >something like Zone Alarm, then it's a simple matter of editing his >settings to allow the connection. > >But Lenny, the student using AOL . . . DO tell me that he's NOT using >AOL's browser? That he understands that while he can connect to the >Internet using AOL's server, he simply cannot use AOL's browser? If he's >trying to use AOL's browser, then that's the problem. If, however, he's >using a real IE and Netscape, and all his java and cookie settings are >correct, then it's possible that AOL's server has blocked access to your >MOO's port. He can either query AOL, or he can try connecting to the 'net >via a different ISP. Test a MOO connection using a freebie ISP just to >see what happens. If you can get in, then he should be able to get in. > Having said that, AOL has become horribly problematic over the > last couple of months. Across the country, it's blocking access to and > from educational and other servers, and I've no clue why. For instance, > it rejected all FSU e-mail for all AOL servers. FSU had to contact AOL > to get them to change the setting, but it only lasted for a few days > before they'd put it back in place. I have a hunch it has to do with > spam issues, but in the meantime, it means that students who use AOL are > out in the cold more often than not, as opposed to the usual predictable > but irregular borkings. To be honest, I consider it a small victory if > any of my own students *leave* AOL. :-/ > >Last . . . since you don't say what browser the students are using, or >what version, the only other thing I can suggest is that they consider >upgrading their browser if they're using an old version, or try an >alternate browser. (i.e., use Netscape if they're failing with IE, and >vice versa.) The latter experiment especially would help isolate the >problem--you'd then know whether it was the browser or not, and that would >help. > >In any event, good luck. >Rhonna > > >At 05:46 AM 9/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>I've recently has a few students come to me with some login issues I have >>not experienced before, and I was hoping some of you might have some >>suggestions or answers: >> >>Student 1) Can't login to the MOO from home, even after downloading >>JAVA. He has Windows XP and uses AOL. Has anyone else experienced AOL >>access problems? Other than the Virtual Machine/JAVA issue, are there any >>other XP issues that potentially can cause problems? >> >>Student 2) Can't access the MOO. We think it may be due to a home >>firewall set up he has. Has anyone else experienced access difficulties >>due to firewalls and what is the solution? >> >>Student 3) She goes to a public library to access the MOO. When she logs >>in from this location, it takes twenty to thirty minutes to fully >>login. She eventually gets in and once in is able to operate at normal >>speed; it is just the initial log in that takes forever. From campus, >>she gets in normally. What would be slowing down the initial login like that? >> >> >>It seems to me that it might be nice to have a collaborative help page >>for login troubles. I am happy to act as the collector of these login >>solutions and publish a page that others could link to. I already have a >>Login Trouble page, but it doesn't cover the problems I am seeing here: >> >>http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/logintrouble.htm >> >>Thanks, >> >>Lennie >> >Rhonna J. Robbins-Sponaas >Department of English >The Florida State University >Tallahassee, Florida 32306 >http://rhonna.net L. Lennie Irvin English Instructor, San Antonio College 1300 San Pedro Ave. San Antonio, TX 78212 Lirvin@accd.edu http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/lirvin.htm AlaMOO: http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/index.htm From cynthiah@utdallas.edu Fri Sep 19 15:18:11 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:18:11 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from smtp1.utdallas.edu (smtp1-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.5]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5C875BAD for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:18:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c68.113.221.149.ts46v-03.dntn.tx.charter.com [68.113.221.149]) by smtp1.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497E4388D45; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:18:10 -0500 (CDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:18:10 -0500 Subject: [encore] Re: Login issues From: Cynthia Haynes To: , encore Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919140049.0255e698@accdvm.accd.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 925 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: cynthiah@utdallas.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: cynthiah@utdallas.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Lennie, Sorry, I should have been more specific about the packet shaper. This is software that UTD has installed on the UTD network, so it's entirely on our end. And since the Lingua MOO server consists solely of telnet hits, which this shaper is designed to choke out if necessary, it was a huge problem at first. It was installed to check every telnet connection, but specifically connections that are 'port hopping,' which indicate file swapping activity. It not only checked every login to the MOO, but every MOO process, meaning everything. So, the lag was incredible, and occasionally it would sever users' connections. Once we discussed our symptoms with the UNIX network folks, they traced the problem to the packet shaper. They asked us if we would move the MOO to a different port, but we didn't want to do that for a variety of reasons. So, they tried some stuff with the shaper that would ignore the incoming telnet connections to Lingua, but it still had to check first to see whether a telnet connection was going to Lingua or elsewhere on the UTD network, and that still slowed things down noticeably. Next they tried a workaround of our ports 7000 and 8888, which worked for awhile. But sometimes the shaper program would periodically slip for some reason, and the settings would revert and the problem would reappear at Lingua. We would have to notify them and so forth, and it was a huge hassle. So, they next tried something that would automatically reset the settings to ignore our ports if there was an interruption of the shaper. And that has worked so far. We have had no problems now for about a year. After all of this I can say it's a real shame that illegal file swapping has to affect so many other legitimate network traffic users. Hope this helps... Best, Cynthia __Cynthia Haynes, Director of Rhetoric and Writing___________________ University of Texas at Dallas cynthiah@utdallas.edu School of Arts & Humanities http://www.utdallas.edu/~cynthiah PO Box 830688-JO 31 http://lingua.utdallas.edu:7000 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (O)972-883-6340 (F)972-883-2989 From manitoba98xp@hotmail.com Fri Sep 19 15:54:50 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:50 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BABB5BEF for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DA61A31CC for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 22988-01-73 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law15-dav73.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.22.208]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D285B38A8E for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:54:48 -0700 Received: from 24.100.217.71 by law15-dav73.law15.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:54:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.100.217.71] X-Originating-Email: [manitoba98xp@hotmail.com] From: "Manitoba98" To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919053432.00a36ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> Subject: [encore] Re: Login issues Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:43:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Sep 2003 20:54:48.0379 (UTC) FILETIME=[435AF0B0:01C37EF0] X-archive-position: 926 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: manitoba98xp@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: manitoba98xp@hotmail.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore I believe I can answer one of your questions. I believe it takes "forever" to log in from the public location (I think a library) for one or more of the following reasons: 1: The library has a slow internet connection 2: The server is further away, so it takes longer to make a connection 3: There were too many people on at the designated time(s) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennie Irvin" To: Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 8:46 AM Subject: [encore] Login issues > I've recently has a few students come to me with some login issues I have > not experienced before, and I was hoping some of you might have some > suggestions or answers: > > Student 1) Can't login to the MOO from home, even after downloading > JAVA. He has Windows XP and uses AOL. Has anyone else experienced AOL > access problems? Other than the Virtual Machine/JAVA issue, are there any > other XP issues that potentially can cause problems? > > Student 2) Can't access the MOO. We think it may be due to a home firewall > set up he has. Has anyone else experienced access difficulties due to > firewalls and what is the solution? > > Student 3) She goes to a public library to access the MOO. When she logs > in from this location, it takes twenty to thirty minutes to fully > login. She eventually gets in and once in is able to operate at normal > speed; it is just the initial log in that takes forever. From campus, she > gets in normally. What would be slowing down the initial login like that? > > > It seems to me that it might be nice to have a collaborative help page for > login troubles. I am happy to act as the collector of these login > solutions and publish a page that others could link to. I already have a > Login Trouble page, but it doesn't cover the problems I am seeing here: > > http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/logintrouble.htm > > Thanks, > > Lennie > > > > From egoff@mindspring.com Sat Sep 20 10:27:08 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:27:09 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884B55BAD for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:27:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484F11A03B4 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:27:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 09564-01-7 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:27:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DCE38A93 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:27:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from user-2ivekcj.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.81.147] helo=master) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A0jdX-0003Lp-00; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:27:03 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030920112934.00ea1148@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: egoff@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:29:34 -0400 To: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu, encore@utdallas.edu From: Edward Goff Subject: [encore] Re: Login issues In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919053432.00a36ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-archive-position: 927 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: egoff@mindspring.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: egoff@mindspring.com List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore At 05:46 AM 9/19/2003 -0700, Lennie Irvin wrote: >I've recently has a few students come to me with some login issues I have >not experienced before, and I was hoping some of you might have some >suggestions or answers: > >Student 1) Can't login to the MOO from home, even after downloading >JAVA. He has Windows XP and uses AOL. Has anyone