From lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Fri May 2 14:48:55 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 02 May 2003 14:48:56 -0500 Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2376A75C2 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:48:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA561A2F9B for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:48:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 19703-01-25 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:48:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id E91B238A8C for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 14:48:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from GH208-LIRVIN.accdvm.accd.edu [10.11.36.44] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 02 May 2003 14:47:21 CDT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030502143155.02aa9d68@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:47:56 -0500 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Object creation questions-- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" X-archive-position: 831 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-ID: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Heya,

I have two questions about making some new kinds of objects:

I want to create a specialized object for doing peer response, and I was hoping for some help in making it.  Right now, I have students submit an essay by creating a room and posting the text into the room description.  Then I have them create a note board and drop it into the room to house the peer responses.  It works really well except I always have to give my students a print copy of the response questions. 

What I'd like to create is something of a meld between a slide projector and a note board.  The slide projector part of the object could present the series of questions in the text side of the MOO while the note board would write the responses and post the completed peer response as a note inside the author's note board.  Then I wouldn't have to give out print copies of the questions.

My question is whether I could "swipe" the verbs and properties that make the slide projector run and then reprogram them into a "child" of the note board that I might call "response board" or something.  Could I program the noteboard to do the command @set <projectorname>.s1 to {}?  I guess what I'm asking is whether I could enscribe using the editor two different sets of text--the response questions and then the answers.

I was hoping some of you more well versed in MOO programming could give me a few pointers on how to proceed.  With some guidance, I think I might be able to muddle along and come up with something.

My next question is whether it is possible to create multiple objects in a single "Create New Object" or @create?  What I'm thinking of is a specialized Essay Room.  When a student created an Essay Room it would already have inside it a note board (or response board if I can make it) and another note to house their Draft Letter.  One command to create three objects--is it possible?

Thanks as always for the help,

Lennie 

L. Lennie Irvin
English Instructor, San Antonio College
1300 San Pedro Ave.
San Antonio, TX 78212
Lirvin@accd.edu
http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/lirvin.htm

AlaMOO: http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/index.htm
 From jeffwhite@uaa.alaska.edu Fri May 2 21:00:25 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 02 May 2003 21:00:26 -0500 Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1F9768B for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 21:00:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBB21A12E2 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 20:59:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 09802-01-36 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 20:59:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from itsfw02.uaa.alaska.edu (webmail.uaa.alaska.edu [137.229.138.128]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D65E38A88 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 20:58:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu by itsfw02.uaa.alaska.edu via smtpd (for ns0.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) with ESMTP; Fri, 2 May 2003 17:58:38 -0800 Received: from [137.229.138.2] ([137.229.181.232]) by sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HEAG5L00.D6K for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 17:58:33 -0800 Received: from isocrates-1.uaa.alaska.edu ([137.229.181.232]) by [137.229.138.2] via smtpd (for sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu [137.229.138.128]) with ESMTP; Fri, 2 May 2003 17:58:54 -0800 From: "Jeff White" To: Subject: [encore] Re: Object creation questions-- Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:58:53 -0800 Organization: University of Alaska Anchorage Message-ID: <003901c31117$8c76c5e0$e8b5e589@Isocrates> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C310D4.7E5385E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030502143155.02aa9d68@accdvm.accd.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-archive-position: 832 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-ID: X-List-ID: X-list: encore This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C310D4.7E5385E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to join Lennie in asking this question. But with a slightly different spin--though it might serve his needs as well as what he's asked about. Rather than having the question set hard-coded, I'd like a similar object but more flexible. Rather than hard-code the question set, store them within a database (or arrayed variable?)--so any user using the MOO could create a "response board" which prompts him through the addition of question sets--maybe a "set questions on X" verb. This way, a teacher could make one and tell students to create children of it--OR a student could create his own and put questions on it for peer response (or both...student adds to teacher's q's). And multiple users could respond to the question sets "answer questions on X." The responses could be stored in a different database (or like a dimensioned arrray. A$(x, y)?). As I write this out, it doesn't sound so hard, but my programming frame of reference is (embarassingly...) BASIC. What's a good object to look at for a point of reference on how to prompt a user for input, accept it, store it to a db for the object, and move to the next question? jeff -----Original Message----- From: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On Behalf Of Lennie Irvin Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:48 AM To: encore@utdallas.edu Subject: [encore] Object creation questions-- Heya, I have two questions about making some new kinds of objects: I want to create a specialized object for doing peer response, and I was hoping for some help in making it. Right now, I have students submit an essay by creating a room and posting the text into the room description. Then I have them create a note board and drop it into the room to house the peer responses. It works really well except I always have to give my students a print copy of the response questions. What I'd like to create is something of a meld between a slide projector and a note board. The slide projector part of the object could present the series of questions in the text side of the MOO while the note board would write the responses and post the completed peer response as a note inside the author's note board. Then I wouldn't have to give out print copies of the questions. My question is whether I could "swipe" the verbs and properties that make the slide projector run and then reprogram them into a "child" of the note board that I might call "response board" or something. Could I program the noteboard to do the command @set .s1 to {}? I guess what I'm asking is whether I could enscribe using the editor two different sets of text--the response questions and then the answers. I was hoping some of you more well versed in MOO programming could give me a few pointers on how to proceed. With some guidance, I think I might be able to muddle along and come up with something. My next question is whether it is possible to create multiple objects in a single "Create New Object" or @create? What I'm thinking of is a specialized Essay Room. When a student created an Essay Room it would already have inside it a note board (or response board if I can make it) and another note to house their Draft Letter. One command to create three objects--is it possible? Thanks as always for the help, Lennie L. Lennie Irvin English Instructor, San Antonio College 1300 San Pedro Ave. San Antonio, TX 78212 Lirvin@accd.edu http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/lirvin.htm AlaMOO: http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/index.htm ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C310D4.7E5385E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

I'd=20 like to join Lennie in asking this question. But with a slightly = different=20 spin--though it might serve his needs as well as what he's asked about.=20
 
Rather=20 than having the question set hard-coded, I'd like a similar object but = more=20 flexible. Rather than hard-code the question set, store them within=20 a database (or arrayed variable?)--so any user using the MOO could = create a=20 "response board" which prompts him through the addition of question = sets--maybe=20 a "set questions on X" verb. This way, a teacher could make one and tell = students to create children of it--OR a student could create his own and = put=20 questions on it for peer response (or both...student adds to teacher's=20 q's).
 
And=20 multiple users could respond to the question sets "answer questions on = X."=20 The responses could be stored in a different = database=20 (or like a dimensioned arrray. A$(x, y)?).
 
As I=20 write this out, it doesn't sound so hard, but my programming frame of = reference=20 is (embarassingly...) BASIC. What's a good object to look at = for a=20 point of reference on how to prompt a user for input, accept it, = store it=20 to a db for the object, and move to the next = question?
 
jeff
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 encore-bounce@utdallas.edu [mailto:encore-bounce@utdallas.edu] On = Behalf Of=20 Lennie Irvin
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:48 = AM
To:=20 encore@utdallas.edu
Subject: [encore] Object creation=20 questions--

Heya,

I have two questions = about making=20 some new kinds of objects:

I want to create a specialized = object for=20 doing peer response, and I was hoping for some help in making = it.  Right=20 now, I have students submit an essay by creating a room and posting = the text=20 into the room description.  Then I have them create a note board = and drop=20 it into the room to house the peer responses.  It works really = well=20 except I always have to give my students a print copy of the response=20 questions. 

What I'd like to create is something of a = meld=20 between a slide projector and a note board.  The slide projector = part of=20 the object could present the series of questions in the text side of = the MOO=20 while the note board would write the responses and post the completed = peer=20 response as a note inside the author's note board.  Then I = wouldn't have=20 to give out print copies of the questions.

My question is = whether I=20 could "swipe" the verbs and properties that make the slide projector = run and=20 then reprogram them into a "child" of the note board that I might call = "response board" or something.  Could I program the noteboard to = do the=20 command @set <projectorname>.s1 to {}?  I guess what = I'm=20 asking is whether I could enscribe using the editor two different sets = of=20 text--the response questions and then the answers.

I was hoping = some of=20 you more well versed in MOO programming could give me a few pointers = on how to=20 proceed.  With some guidance, I think I might be able to muddle = along and=20 come up with something.

My next question is whether it is = possible to=20 create multiple objects in a single "Create New Object" or = @create?  What=20 I'm thinking of is a specialized Essay Room.  When a student = created an=20 Essay Room it would already have inside it a note board (or response = board if=20 I can make it) and another note to house their Draft Letter.  One = command=20 to create three objects--is it possible?

Thanks as always for = the=20 help,

Lennie 

L. Lennie Irvin
English Instructor, San Antonio=20 College
1300 San Pedro Ave.
San Antonio, TX=20 78212
Lirvin@accd.edu
http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/lirvin.htm
<= BR>AlaMOO:=20 http://www.accd.edu/sac/english/lirvin/AlaMOO/index.ht= m

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C310D4.7E5385E0-- From cynthiah@utdallas.edu Tue May 6 02:36:44 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 06 May 2003 02:36:44 -0500 Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from smtp1.utdallas.edu (smtp1-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.5]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48AFD778F for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:36:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c66.169.102.159.ts46v-02.mhe2.ftwrth.tx.charter.com [66.169.102.159]) by smtp1.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A641C388C43 for ; Tue, 6 May 2003 02:36:43 -0500 (CDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 02:36:41 -0500 Subject: [encore] EnCore MOOs Portfolio From: Cynthia Haynes To: encore Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 833 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: cynthiah@utdallas.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: cynthiah@utdallas.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-ID: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Greetings, Over the years we have tried to keep track of as many enCore MOOs as possible to showcase on the enCore site. We have started the Portfolio page, and we'd like your help. If you have an active enCore MOO (whether public or private, i.e. no guest logins), and you would like to have your MOO listed, please let me know (offlist) and provide some brief information. We'll be happy to add it to the Portfolio page, which can be found here (to see what information you should give us, see the examples): http://lingua.utdallas.edu/encore/moos.html Also, if you see your MOO listed and the information needs to be updated, please let me know that, too. It has been fascinating to compile this list, and we know there are many more enCore MOOs out there. So, we want to know so that others can know! Thanks, Cynthia and Jan __Cynthia Haynes, Director of Rhetoric and Writing___________________ University of Texas at Dallas cynthiah@utdallas.edu School of Arts & Humanities http://www.utdallas.edu/~cynthiah PO Box 830688-JO 31 http://lingua.utdallas.edu:7000 Richardson, TX 75083-0688 (O)972-883-6340 (F)972-883-2989 From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Tue May 20 06:18:19 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 20 May 2003 06:18:19 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4203F5C00 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:18:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40AC1A2AF0 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:18:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 25976-01-13 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:18:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 26F0F38A8B for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:18:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.54] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Tue, 20 May 2003 06:16:44 CDT Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 06:22:08 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Structured Text Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2298047==_.ALT" X-archive-position: 834 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore --=====================_2298047==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Everyone, In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities within the=20 descriptions of objects, I came across an online peer review tool used by=20 John Williams at Aston University that uses what he calls "Structured=20 Text." Could we use this in the MOO and gain better formatting? Lennie *********************************************** Here is his description of Structured Text: Structured Text is used here to allow some formatting of user text without= =20 the user having to know HTML. It is used because it greatly increases the=20 security when compared with allowing the input of raw html by users for=20 presentation as part of an html page. Structured text is text that uses indentation and simple symbology to=20 indicate the structure of a document. A structured string consists of a=20 sequence of paragraphs separated by one or more blank lines. Each paragraph= =20 has a level which is defined as the minimum indentation of the paragraph. A= =20 paragraph is a sub-paragraph of another paragraph if the other paragraph is= =20 the last preceding paragraph that has a lower level. Special symbology is used to indicate special constructs: =B7 A single line paragraph whose immediately succeeding paragraphs= are=20 lower level is treated as a header. for example.:: A heading with a subparagraph gives A heading with a subparagraph =B7 A paragraph that begins with a -, *, or o is treated as an=20 unordered list (bullet) element For example:: * an unordered list gives =B7 an unordered list =B7 A paragraph that begins with a sequence of digits followed by a=20 period and a white-space character is treated as an ordered list element. For example:: 1. an ordered list gives an ordered list =B7 A paragraph with a first line that contains some text, followed by= =20 some white-space and -- is treated as a descriptive list element. The=20 leading text is treated as the element title For example:: Defining term -- Defining data gives Defining term Defining data =B7 Sub-paragraphs of a paragraph that ends in the word example or the= =20 word examples, or :: is treated as example code and is output as is. For example:: For example:: This is an example gives For example:: This is an example =B7 Text enclosed single quotes (with white-space to the left of the= =20 first quote and whitespace or puctuation to the right of the second quote)= =20 is treated as example code e.g. 'example code' gives example code . =B7 Text surrounded by * characters (with white-space to the left of= =20 the first * and whitespace or puctuation to the right of the second *) is=20 emphasized e.g. *important* gives important . =B7 Text surrounded by ** characters (with white-space to the left of= =20 the first ** and whitespace or puctuation to the right of the second **) is= =20 made strong e.g. **very important** gives very important . =B7 Text surrounded by _ underscore characters (with whitespace to the= =20 left and whitespace or punctuation to the right) is made underlined e.g.=20 _underlined text_ gives underlined text =B7 Text enclosed by double quotes followed by a colon, a URL, and=20 concluded by punctuation plus white space, or just white space, is treated= =20 as a hyper link. For example: "A link":http://www.zope.org/ gives =B7 A=20 link . This works for relative as well as absolute URLs. =B7 Text enclosed in brackets which consists only of letters, digits,= =20 underscores and dashes is treated as hyper links within the document. For=20 example: As demonstrated by Smith [a12] =B7 [r1] is interpreted as ... by= =20 Smith [12] this technique is quite effective Together= =20 with the next rule this allows easy coding of references or end notes. =B7 Text enclosed in brackets which is preceded by the start of a= line,=20 two periods and a space is treated as a named link. For example:: .. [a12] "Effective Techniques" Smith, Joe Is interpreted as [12] "Effective Techniques" [r2] .=20 Together with the previous rule this allows easy coding of references or=20 end notes. =B7 A paragraph that has blocks of text enclosed in || is treated as a= =20 table. The text blocks correspond to table cells and table rows are denoted= =20 by newlines. By default the cells are center aligned. A cell can span more= =20 than one column by preceding a block of text with an equivalent number of=20 cell separators || . Newlines and '|' cannot be a part of the cell text. For example:: ||||Heading 1||Heading 2|| ||Sub A||Sub B|| || ||col 1||col 2||col 3|| gives Heading 1Heading 2 Sub ASub BSub x col 1col 2col 3 [r1] According to the HTML 4.0 specification identifiers must start with a= =20 letter so using references like [12] is a bit of a no-no, though it does=20 work (at least in all the browsers I've tried). [r2] I know, I know, the use of name here is deprecated, id should be used= =20 instead. --=====================_2298047==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Everyone,

In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities within the descriptions of objects, I came across an online peer review tool used by John Williams at Aston University that uses what he calls "Structured Text."  Could we use this in the MOO and gain better formatting?

Lennie

***********************************************

Here is his description of Structured Text:

Structured Text is used here to allow some formatting of user text without the user having to know HTML. It is used because it greatly increases the security when compared with allowing the input of raw html by users for presentation as part of an html page.

Structured text is text that uses indentation and simple symbology to indicate the structure of a document. A structured string consists of a sequence of paragraphs separated by one or more blank lines. Each paragraph has a level which is defined as the minimum indentation of the paragraph. A paragraph is a sub-paragraph of another paragraph if the other paragraph is the last preceding paragraph that has a lower level.
Special symbology is used to indicate special constructs:
=B7       A single line paragraph whose immediately succeeding paragraphs are lower level is treated as a header.=20
for example.::
     A heading
         with a
         subparagraph
gives
A heading
with a subparagraph
=B7      &nb= sp;A paragraph that begins with a -, *, or o is treated as an unordered list (bullet) element=20
For example::
     * an unordered list
gives
=B7      &nb= sp;an unordered list
=B7       A paragraph that begins with a sequence of digits followed by a period and a white-space character is treated as an ordered list element.=20
For example::
   1. an ordered list
gives
an ordered list=20
=B7      &nb= sp;A paragraph with a first line that contains some text, followed by some white-space and -- is treated as a descriptive list element. The leading text is treated as the element title=20
For example::
    Defining term -- Defining data
gives
Defining term
Defining data
=B7       Sub-paragraphs of a paragraph that ends in the word example or the word examples, or :: is treated as example code and is output as is.
For example::
    For
    example::
     This is an example
gives
For example::
    This is an example
=B7      &= nbsp;Text enclosed single quotes (with white-space to the left of the first quote and whitespace or puctuation to the right of the second quote) is treated as example code e.g. 'example code' gives example code .
=B7      &= nbsp;Text surrounded by * characters (with white-space to the left of the first * and whitespace or puctuation to the right of the second *) is emphasized e.g. *important* gives important .
=B7       Text surrounded by ** characters (with white-space to the left of the first ** and whitespace or puctuation to the right of the second **) is made strong e.g. **very important** gives very important .
=B7       Text surrounded by _ underscore characters (with whitespace to the left and whitespace or punctuation to the right) is made underlined e.g. _underlined text_ gives underlined text
=B7       Text enclosed by double quotes followed by a colon, a URL, and concluded by punctuation plus white space, or just white space, is treated as a hyper link. For example: "A link":http://www.zo= pe.org/ gives =B7   A link . This works for relative as well as absolute URLs.=20
=B7       Text enclosed in brackets which consists only of letters, digits, underscores and dashes is treated as hyper links within the document. For example: As demonstrated by Smith [a12] =B7   [r1] is interpreted as ... by Smith <a href=3D"#a12">[12]</a&g= t; this technique is quite effective Together with the next rule this allows= easy coding of references or end notes.
=B7       Text enclosed in brackets which is preceded by the start of a line,= two periods and a space is treated as a named link.
For example::
    .. [a12]= "Effective Techniques" Smith, Joe
Is interpreted as <a name=3D"a12">[12]</a>= "Effective Techniques" [r2]= . Together with the previous rule this allows easy coding of references or= end notes.
=B7       A paragraph that has blocks of text enclosed in || is treated as a table. The text blocks correspond to= table cells and table rows are denoted by newlines. By default the cells= are center aligned. A cell can span more than one column by preceding a= block of text with an equivalent number of cell separators || . Newlines= and '|' cannot be a part of the cell text.
For example::
    ||||Heading= 1||Heading 2||
    ||Sub A||Sub B|| ||
    ||col 1||col 2||col 3||
gives
Heading 1
Heading 2
Sub ASub BSub x=
col 1col 2col= 3
[r1] According to the HTML 4.0 specification identifiers must start= with a letter so using references like [12] is a bit of a no-no, though it does= work (at least in all the browsers I've tried).
[r2] I know, I know, the use of name here is deprecated, id should be used= instead.

--=====================_2298047==_.ALT-- From aborgia@videotron.ca Tue May 20 17:06:49 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 20 May 2003 17:06:49 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2E75BE1 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:06:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C2F21A2027 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:06:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 20633-01-71 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:06:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8AE38A92 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:06:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alex ([24.200.68.72]) by VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.10 (built Jan 23 2003)) with SMTP id <0HF7003FEHBVQM@VL-MS-MR001.sc1.videotron.ca> for encore@utdallas.edu; Tue, 20 May 2003 18:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:04:30 -0400 From: Alexandre Borgia Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text To: Encore Message-id: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-archive-position: 835 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: aborgia@videotron.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-to: aborgia@videotron.ca List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Greetings! Most of these layout rules could be executed quite simply using a set of regular expressions on an object's text or description. Though if you want your web users to layout web content intuitively, I suggest using some kind of DHTML editor - that is, a kind of "what you see is what you get" editor à la Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc. that works from within a webpage. There are some free bundles out there & also commercial ones, but it is also relatively easy to create such an interface from scratch. What you need basically is a "div" with the "contenteditable" option enabled (there's also an old ActiveX control that can do the trick - working from IE 4+). This creates a kind of "textarea" box but HTML-aware that can show pictures, styled text, lists, etc.- and most importantly, that can be edited:) The next (and harder) step is to create some kind of menu to control this box using javascript (with, for example, set "bold", "italic", "underline" commands). I have such a thing implemented and would willingly share it, though it was part of a bigger project and will probably need some cleaning before being useable. Tell me if you are interested! Of course, there is a drawback: this kind of editor probably only works using IE (and maybe newest version of Netscape / Mozzilla ... I'm not sure). - Alexandre Borgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennie Irvin" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: [encore] Structured Text Hey Everyone, In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities within the descriptions of objects, I came across an online peer review tool used by John Williams at Aston University that uses what he calls "Structured Text." Could we use this in the MOO and gain better formatting? Lennie From herve@hawaii.edu Tue May 20 17:50:14 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Tue, 20 May 2003 17:50:15 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C546C5BAD for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:50:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F211A06F5 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:50:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 02803-01-4 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:50:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rapidash.its.hawaii.edu (rapidash.its.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.83]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E938838A99 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 17:50:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail.hawaii.edu by mail.hawaii.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.11 (built Jan 28 2003)) id <0HF700F01J67FQ@mail.hawaii.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:50:12 -1000 (HST) Received: from herve.phys.hawaii.edu (herve.phys.hawaii.edu [128.171.11.114]) by mail.hawaii.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 1.11 (built Jan 28 2003)) with ESMTPS id <0HF700AQSJCCY2@mail.hawaii.edu>; Tue, 20 May 2003 12:48:13 -1000 (HST) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:54:54 -1000 (HST) From: rv Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text In-reply-to: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> X-X-Sender: herve@herve.phys.hawaii.edu To: Encore Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 836 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: herve@hawaii.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: herve@hawaii.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennie, This reminds me of Stucky & Wingy's Web Washer project. You might find it inetresting. http://www.winternet.com/~wingnut/html/wwdocs/ which would allow one to do this kind of HTML formating very easily for instance: http://ahynes1.homeip.net:9999/62 Aloha rv, > In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities within the > descriptions of objects, I came across an online peer review tool used by > John Williams at Aston University that uses what he calls "Structured > Text." Could we use this in the MOO and gain better formatting? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+yrJBgJTKqShLTdgRAruTAKC0cqkWas78BrsIPIcQjYpP8njqngCgh3Wi 1YeQGZj7LVyzQuhUAylq8vM= =y93l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From j.a.r.williams@aston.ac.uk Thu May 22 02:27:39 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Thu, 22 May 2003 02:27:39 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD145BDC for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 02:27:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DD21A0B1A for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 02:27:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 15538-01-77 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 02:27:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mercury.aston.ac.uk (mercury.aston.ac.uk [134.151.79.53]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C2E38A97 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 02:27:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [134.151.79.13] (helo=email.aston.ac.uk) by mercury.aston.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 19IkR2-0003q7-00; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:24:20 +0100 Received: from heisenberg ([134.151.54.90] helo=heisenberg.aston.ac.uk) by email.aston.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 19IkTk-0004FX-00; Thu, 22 May 2003 08:27:08 +0100 To: aborgia@videotron.ca, Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu, encore@utdallas.edu Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text X-Url: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar X-Attribution: JARW References: <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> From: John Williams Organization: Aston University Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:27:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> (Alexandre Borgia's message of "Tue, 20 May 2003 18:04:30 -0400") Message-ID: <8765o38pit.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-archive-position: 837 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: J.A.R.Williams@aston.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: J.A.R.Williams@aston.ac.uk List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Just to comment on my experience of the use of structured text. I wanted students to contribute reasonable length formatted articles. Originally I allowed them to code their own HTML but found that many where producing invalid HTML (e.g. by exporting from a Word document) and which frankly led to many articles being a mess. Hence I moved to insist that students use structured text which is an idea that came from the Zope Web Application server (although I now don't use Zope for this particular application as it is too slow). While I would say that there was some resistance the students have adjusted when I explain why I require this. I have added to the syntax somewhat compared to the form used by Zope to allow references in images which students can upload and to accept mathematical expressions written in Latex mark-up which are automatically converted to images. I don't have much experience of DHTML but I tend to try and create systems which are not demanding in terms of browser technology so that they, for example, could be used from a PDA. Hence I use only basic forms - no Javascript etc. A full implementation of structured text really requires some form of state machine as well as regular expressions but isn't too hard. The problem, I believe, with doing this in a LambdaMOO is that if you want it to be available to many types of objects it needs to be in some common ancestor object as you don't have multiple inheritance or an easy mechanism for adding to the core functions. >>>>> "Alexandre" =3D=3D Alexandre Borgia writes: Alexandre> Greetings! Most of these layout rules could be Alexandre> executed quite simply using a set of regular Alexandre> expressions on an object's text or description. Though Alexandre> if you want your web users to layout web content Alexandre> intuitively, I suggest using some kind of DHTML editor Alexandre> - that is, a kind of "what you see is what you get" Alexandre> editor =E0 la Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc. that works Alexandre> from within a webpage. There are some free bundles out Alexandre> there & also commercial ones, but it is also relatively Alexandre> easy to create such an interface from scratch. Alexandre> What you need basically is a "div" with the Alexandre> "contenteditable" option enabled (there's also an old Alexandre> ActiveX control that can do the trick - working from IE Alexandre> 4+). This creates a kind of "textarea" box but Alexandre> HTML-aware that can show pictures, styled text, lists, Alexandre> etc.- and most importantly, that can be edited:) The Alexandre> next (and harder) step is to create some kind of menu Alexandre> to control this box using javascript (with, for Alexandre> example, set "bold", "italic", "underline" commands). Alexandre> I have such a thing implemented and would willingly Alexandre> share it, though it was part of a bigger project and Alexandre> will probably need some cleaning before being useable. Alexandre> Tell me if you are interested! Alexandre> Of course, there is a drawback: this kind of editor Alexandre> probably only works using IE (and maybe newest version Alexandre> of Netscape / Mozzilla ... I'm not sure). Alexandre> - Alexandre Borgia Alexandre> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennie Irvin" Alexandre> To: Alexandre> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: [encore] Alexandre> Structured Text Alexandre> Hey Everyone, Alexandre> In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities Alexandre> within the descriptions of objects, I came across an Alexandre> online peer review tool used by John Williams at Aston Alexandre> University that uses what he calls "Structured Text." Alexandre> Could we use this in the MOO and gain better Alexandre> formatting? Alexandre> Lennie --=20 Dr. John A.R. Williams Photonics Research Group (http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics) Aston University (http://www.aston.ac.uk) PGP: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar/about/key From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Thu May 22 06:30:20 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Thu, 22 May 2003 06:30:20 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289635BDC for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:30:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C691A13C2 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:30:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 21475-01-3 for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:29:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id B265238A8B for ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:29:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.25] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Thu, 22 May 2003 06:28:24 CDT Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20030522062309.009f6070@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:33:38 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text In-Reply-To: <8765o38pit.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> References: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3331122==_.ALT" X-archive-position: 838 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore --=====================_3331122==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, As far as structured text and MOO, I'm not sure what you mean by "A full=20 implementation of structured text really requires some form of state=20 machine as well as regular expressions?" I think implementation would=20 actually be very easy. MOO does have inheritance, so all we would have to= =20 do is adjust the code in a parent object and all the children would carry=20 those changes. But what exactly would the changes be? I think the problem with formatted text within MOO comes from a couple= factors: 1--EnCore still tries to maintain its dual identity as a text-based MOO and= =20 a Graphical Interface MOO. Most people like the fact that MOO can be=20 easily accessed by low-end users via telnet. All text in a text-based MOO= =20 is ascii, and so it has no formatting. What would the possibilities be if= =20 we were to shed the "requirements" of maintaining the text-MOO identity? 2--Many of the possible formatting solutions are not cross-platform=20 compatible (as Alex pointed out). Would structured text be=20 cross-platform? It sounds like it. 3--I'm also not sure how the MOO takes text and "on the fly" presents it as= =20 a web page in the Graphical side of the MOO. I believe there are different= =20 ways to do this on the fly presentation, and the current way EnCore does it= =20 "may" have some limitations. I don't know. I'm curious to know more about how students compose in Structured=20 Text. Did they use a different "editor" to compose their pieces in? Or=20 did they compose in Word or some other word processor and then copy and=20 paste into a structured text? Have you ever heard of the "Magic Box" used by the online course tool=20 called Syllabase? I wonder if you structured text is something like this=20 magic box technology. Here is its description: "All of 3GB's current products contain the Magic Box, which enables users=20 to cut-and-paste a variety of content--text, graphics, audio, video,=20 spreadsheets--directly into their website, where it appears with form and=20 function intact." A demo can be seen at: http://www.3gb.com/Document/index.asp?Parent=3D2474 I guess I would love it if there was some sort of "magic box" editor that=20 appeared each time you went to add a description to an object. Lennie At 07:27 AM 5/22/03 +0100, you wrote: >Just to comment on my experience of the use of structured text. I >wanted students to contribute reasonable length formatted >articles. Originally I allowed them to code their own HTML but found >that many where producing invalid HTML (e.g. by exporting from a Word >document) and which frankly led to many articles being a mess. Hence I >moved to insist that students use structured text which is an idea >that came from the Zope Web Application server (although I now don't >use Zope for this particular application as it is too slow). While I >would say that there was some resistance the students have adjusted >when I explain why I require this. I have added to the syntax somewhat >compared to the form used by Zope to allow references in images which >students can upload and to accept mathematical expressions written in >Latex mark-up which are automatically converted to images. > >I don't have much experience of DHTML but I tend to try and create >systems which are not demanding in terms of browser technology so that >they, for example, could be used from a PDA. Hence I use only basic >forms - no Javascript etc. > >A full implementation of structured text really requires some form of >state machine as well as regular expressions but isn't too hard. The >problem, I believe, with doing this in a LambdaMOO is that if you want >it to be available to many types of objects it needs to be in some >common ancestor object as you don't have multiple inheritance or an easy >mechanism for adding to the core functions. > > >>>>> "Alexandre" =3D=3D Alexandre Borgia writes: > > Alexandre> Greetings! Most of these layout rules could be > Alexandre> executed quite simply using a set of regular > Alexandre> expressions on an object's text or description. Though > Alexandre> if you want your web users to layout web content > Alexandre> intuitively, I suggest using some kind of DHTML editor > Alexandre> - that is, a kind of "what you see is what you get" > Alexandre> editor =E0 la Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc. that works > Alexandre> from within a webpage. There are some free bundles out > Alexandre> there & also commercial ones, but it is also relatively > Alexandre> easy to create such an interface from scratch. > > Alexandre> What you need basically is a "div" with the > Alexandre> "contenteditable" option enabled (there's also an old > Alexandre> ActiveX control that can do the trick - working from IE > Alexandre> 4+). This creates a kind of "textarea" box but > Alexandre> HTML-aware that can show pictures, styled text, lists, > Alexandre> etc.- and most importantly, that can be edited:) The > Alexandre> next (and harder) step is to create some kind of menu > Alexandre> to control this box using javascript (with, for > Alexandre> example, set "bold", "italic", "underline" commands). > > Alexandre> I have such a thing implemented and would willingly > Alexandre> share it, though it was part of a bigger project and > Alexandre> will probably need some cleaning before being useable. > Alexandre> Tell me if you are interested! > > Alexandre> Of course, there is a drawback: this kind of editor > Alexandre> probably only works using IE (and maybe newest version > Alexandre> of Netscape / Mozzilla ... I'm not sure). > > Alexandre> - Alexandre Borgia > > Alexandre> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennie Irvin" > Alexandre> To: > Alexandre> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: [encore] > Alexandre> Structured Text > > > Alexandre> Hey Everyone, > > Alexandre> In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities > Alexandre> within the descriptions of objects, I came across an > Alexandre> online peer review tool used by John Williams at Aston > Alexandre> University that uses what he calls "Structured Text." > Alexandre> Could we use this in the MOO and gain better > Alexandre> formatting? > > Alexandre> Lennie > >-- >Dr. John A.R. Williams >Photonics Research Group (http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics) >Aston University (http://www.aston.ac.uk) >PGP:= http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar/about/key --=====================_3331122==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John,

As far as structured text and MOO, I'm not sure what you mean by "A full implementation of structured text really requires some form of state machine as well as regular expressions?"  I think implementation would actually be very easy.  MOO does have inheritance, so all we would have to do is adjust the code in a parent object and all the children would carry those changes.  But what exactly would the changes be?

I think the problem with formatted text within MOO comes from a couple factors:

1--EnCore still tries to maintain its dual identity as a text-based MOO and a Graphical Interface MOO.  Most people like the fact that MOO can be easily accessed by low-end users via telnet.   All text in a text-based MOO is ascii, and so it has no formatting.  What would the possibilities be if we were to shed the "requirements" of maintaining the text-MOO identity?

2--Many of the possible formatting solutions are not cross-platform compatible (as Alex pointed out).  Would structured text be cross-platform?  It sounds like it.

3--I'm also not sure how the MOO takes text and "on the fly" presents it as a web page in the Graphical side of the MOO.  I believe there are different ways to do this on the fly presentation, and the current way EnCore does it "may" have some limitations.  I don't know.

I'm curious to know more about how students compose in Structured Text.  Did they use a different "editor" to compose their pieces in?  Or did they compose in Word or some other word processor and then copy and paste into a structured text? 

Have you ever heard of the "Magic Box" used by the online course tool called Syllabase?  I wonder if you structured text is something like this magic box technology.  Here is its description:

"All of 3GB's current products contain the Magic Box, which enables users to cut-and-paste a variety of content--text, graphics, audio, video, spreadsheets--directly into their website, where it appears with form and function intact."
A demo can be seen at:  http://www.3gb.com/Document/index.asp?Parent=3D2474<= br>
I guess I would love it if there was some sort of "magic box" editor that appeared each time you went to add a description to an object.

Lennie


At 07:27 AM 5/22/03 +0100, you wrote:

Just to comment on my experience o= f the use of structured text. I
wanted students to contribute reasonable length formatted
articles. Originally I allowed them to code their own HTML but=20 found
that many where producing invalid HTML (e.g. by exporting from a Word
document) and which frankly led to many articles being a mess. Hence I
moved to insist that students use structured text which is an idea
that came from the Zope Web Application server (although I now=20 don't
use Zope for this particular application as it is too slow). While=20 I
would say that there was some resistance the students have adjusted
when I explain why I require this. I have added to the syntax somewhat
compared to the form used by Zope to allow references in images which
students can upload and to accept mathematical expressions written in
Latex mark-up which are automatically converted to images.

I don't have much experience of DHTML but I tend to try and create
systems which are not demanding in terms of browser technology so that
they, for example, could be used from a PDA. Hence I use only basic
forms - no Javascript etc.

A full implementation of structured text really requires some form of
state machine as well as regular expressions but isn't too hard.=20 The
problem, I believe, with doing this in a LambdaMOO is that if you want
it to be available to many types of objects it needs to be in some
common ancestor object as you don't have multiple inheritance or an easy
mechanism for adding to the core functions.

>>>>> "Alexandre" =3D=3D Alexandre Borgia <aborgia@videotron.ca> writes:

    Alexandre> Greetings!  Most of these layout rules could be
    Alexandre> executed quite simply using a set of regular
    Alexandre> expressions on an object's text or description.  Though
    Alexandre> if you want your web users to layout web content
    Alexandre> intuitively, I suggest using some kind of DHTML editor
    Alexandre> - that is, a kind of "what you see is what you get"
    Alexandre> editor =E0 la Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc. that works
    Alexandre> from within a webpage.  There are some free bundles out
    Alexandre> there & also commercial ones, but it is also relatively
    Alexandre> easy to create such an interface from scratch.

    Alexandre>     What you need basically is a "div" with the
    Alexandre> "contenteditable" option enabled (there's also an old
    Alexandre> ActiveX control that can do the trick - working from IE
    Alexandre> 4+).  This creates a kind of "textarea" box but
    Alexandre> HTML-aware that can show pictures, styled text, lists,
    Alexandre> etc.- and most importantly, that can be edited:) The
    Alexandre> next (and harder) step is to create some kind of menu
    Alexandre> to control this box using javascript (with, for
    Alexandre> example, set "bold", "italic", "underline" commands).

    Alexandre>     I have such a thing implemented and would willingly
    Alexandre> share it, though it was part of a bigger project and
    Alexandre> will probably need some cleaning before being useable.
    Alexandre> Tell me if you are interested!

    Alexandre>     Of course, there is a drawback: this kind of editor
    Alexandre> probably only works using IE (and maybe newest version
    Alexandre> of Netscape / Mozzilla ... I'm not sure).

    Alexandre>         - Alexandre Borgia

    Alexandre> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennie Irvin"
    Alexandre> <Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu> To: <encore@utdallas.edu>
    Alexandre> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: [encore]
    Alexandre> Structured Text


    Alexandre> Hey Everyone,

    Alexandre> In my quest to provide better formatting possibilities
    Alexandre> within the descriptions of objects, I came across an
    Alexandre> online peer review tool used by John Williams at Aston
    Alexandre> University that uses what he calls "Structured Text."
    Alexandre> Could we use this in the MOO and gain better
    Alexandre> formatting?

    Alexandre> Lennie

--
Dr. John A.R. Williams
Photonics Research Group (http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics)
Aston University (http://www.aston.ac.uk)
PGP: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/wil= lijar/about/key

--=====================_3331122==_.ALT-- From j.a.r.williams@aston.ac.uk Fri May 23 02:59:52 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 23 May 2003 02:59:52 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFAC5BAD for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:59:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FD61A2085 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:59:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 13414-01-22 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:59:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mercury.aston.ac.uk (mercury.aston.ac.uk [134.151.79.53]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7FA38A8A for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 02:59:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [134.151.79.13] (helo=email.aston.ac.uk) by mercury.aston.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 19J7Pz-00063r-00; Fri, 23 May 2003 08:56:47 +0100 Received: from heisenberg ([134.151.54.90] helo=heisenberg.aston.ac.uk) by email.aston.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #1) id 19J7Si-0007F9-00; Fri, 23 May 2003 08:59:36 +0100 To: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu, encore@utdallas.edu Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text X-Url: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar X-Attribution: JARW References: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030522062309.009f6070@accdvm.accd.edu> From: John Williams Organization: Aston University Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 07:59:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20030522062309.009f6070@accdvm.accd.edu> (Lennie Irvin's message of "Thu, 22 May 2003 06:33:38 -0700") Message-ID: <87of1um9lm.fsf@heisenberg.aston.ac.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 839 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: J.A.R.Williams@aston.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: J.A.R.Williams@aston.ac.uk List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore >>>>> "Lennie" == Lennie Irvin writes: Lennie> John, As far as structured text and MOO, I'm not sure what Lennie> you mean by "A full implementation of structured text Lennie> really requires some form of state machine as well as Lennie> regular expressions?" I think implementation would Lennie> actually be very easy. MOO does have inheritance, so all Lennie> we would have to do is adjust the code in a parent object Lennie> and all the children would carry those changes. But what Lennie> exactly would the changes be? We are getting a bit technical but I consider the single model inheritance model of LambdaMOO to be a limitation as it forces all of the complexity into a few objects at the bottom. I would find it simpler to have a separate object - say just with structured text functionality which could be mixed in with objects as and when required. Lennie> I think the problem with formatted text within MOO comes Lennie> from a couple factors: Lennie> 1--EnCore still tries to maintain its dual identity as a Lennie> text-based MOO and a Graphical Interface MOO. Most people Lennie> like the fact that MOO can be easily accessed by low-end Lennie> users via telnet. All text in a text-based MOO is ascii, Lennie> and so it has no formatting. What would the possibilities Lennie> be if we were to shed the "requirements" of maintaining Lennie> the text-MOO identity? Structured text is designed to make sense as just text as well as to be rendered onto HTML (or pdf) for presentation. Obviously the extra image features I added in for my application would not be appropriate for a text only based interface although the mathematics markup is readable. Lennie> 2--Many of the possible formatting solutions are not Lennie> cross-platform compatible (as Alex pointed out). Would Lennie> structured text be cross-platform? It sounds like it. Yes Lennie> 3--I'm also not sure how the MOO takes text and "on the Lennie> fly" presents it as a web page in the Graphical side of Lennie> the MOO. I believe there are different ways to do this on Lennie> the fly presentation, and the current way EnCore does it Lennie> "may" have some limitations. I don't know. I haven't looked in that much depth at how LambdaMOO takes care of this but I suspect it would need some modification at in the bottom class - see above my feelings on having to put everything on a base object. Lennie> I'm curious to know more about how students compose in Lennie> Structured Text. Did they use a different "editor" to Lennie> compose their pieces in? Or did they compose in Word or Lennie> some other word processor and then copy and paste into a Lennie> structured text? It is easiest to use some form of text editor which can help with laying out the text - web forms are not the best place to actually have to type text. Since students have become used to point and click they do think going back and using a text editor to be a bit primitive and so there is some reluctance as they don't see the relevance to anything they have to do in the future. They are of course wrong about this but I don't think an academic can easily get this message across. Lennie> Have you ever heard of the "Magic Box" used by the online Lennie> course tool called Syllabase? I wonder if you structured Lennie> text is something like this magic box technology. Here is Lennie> its description: Lennie> "All of 3GB's current products contain the Magic Box, Lennie> which enables users to cut-and-paste a variety of Lennie> content--text, graphics, audio, video, Lennie> spreadsheets--directly into their website, where it Lennie> appears with form and function intact." A demo can be Lennie> seen at: http://www.3gb.com/Document/index.asp?Parent=2474 This sounds almost like the complete opposite of structured text in that it is sophisticated and allows online formatting for the point and click generation by taking content from standard office packages. Structured text is much simpler (and I think elegant), but does limit the ways in which information can be entered (which I personally consider a good thing but that is another discussion). Clearly allowing more visual elements to documents does preclude their use with a simple text based interface, and in the case of web pages may limit what platforms it can be viewed on. -- Dr. John A.R. Williams Photonics Research Group (http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics) Aston University (http://www.aston.ac.uk) PGP: http://www.ee.aston.ac.uk/research/photonics/members/willijar/about/key From Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Fri May 23 06:06:59 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 23 May 2003 06:06:59 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D847A5BAD for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 06:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE081A047C for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 06:06:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 01288-01-95 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 06:06:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (accdvm.accd.edu [209.184.119.1]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id B7C7038A88 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 06:06:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from irvin.accdvm.accd.edu [10.1.11.36] by ACCDVM.ACCD.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 23 May 2003 06:05:28 CDT Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20030523060857.00a04ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-Sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 06:11:02 -0700 To: encore@utdallas.edu From: Lennie Irvin Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text In-Reply-To: <005101c32105$e8a6bb60$0200a8c0@alex> References: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030522062309.009f6070@accdvm.accd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 840 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: Lirvin@accdvm.accd.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Alex, But would such a dynamic HTML editor be limited in the platforms that could access it? How would you integrate this dynamic HTML editor into the description of objects? Lennie At 04:32 AM 5/23/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > > I just want to point out that the "Magic Box": > > > A demo can be seen at: >http://www.3gb.com/Document/index.asp?Parent=2474 > > is actually a great example of the dynamic HTML editors I was pointing >out in a previous reply. > > - Alexandre Borgia From aborgia@videotron.ca Fri May 23 13:31:14 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:15 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD805BAD for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2522A1A15B4 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 07587-01-59 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A067238AA2 for ; Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alex ([24.200.68.72]) by VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.10 (built Jan 23 2003)) with SMTP id <0HFC00L7HRDVB5@VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca> for encore@utdallas.edu; Fri, 23 May 2003 14:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:29:58 -0400 From: Alexandre Borgia Subject: [encore] "Magic Box" (was: Struct. Text) To: Encore Message-id: <003401c32159$51330550$0200a8c0@alex> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030520061859.009efec0@accdvm.accd.edu> <000e01c31f1b$ca01f5d0$0200a8c0@alex> <5.0.2.1.0.20030522062309.009f6070@accdvm.accd.edu> <5.0.2.1.0.20030523060857.00a04ec0@accdvm.accd.edu> X-archive-position: 841 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: aborgia@videotron.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-to: aborgia@videotron.ca List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore enCore users & Lennie, I think plain HTML is still the best "Structured Text" method to use since it's a full-featured web standard and can be used as it is without any translation. There seems to be a misunderstanding of the "Magic Box" tool since the point is not weither it is "Structured Text" or its opposite - but is really a front-end interface which can be used to edit structured text (and even if it is most easily working with HTML, it would be possible to create such an editor for John Williams' specifications). Such things as the "Magic Box" are *editors*, and yes: they usually require Internet Explorer in order to work properly - but once it has been saved into the MOO it will create plain HTML files that are viewable from any browser, any platform. I think any tool that can ease students/users interaction is great. Even if there are some of them really stuck with non-mainstream technologies, is it worth restricting everyone else to a dull, featureless MOO? There seems to be a whole argumentation against incorporating new medias into the MOO. It's probably right not to distribute such things with the main enCore distribution, but developping these tools, and promoting them - letting teachers decide weither to use them or not considering their special requirements & availability of these to their students - is a must. The fact is that we now face commercial solutions as "SyllaBase" (the software in which the "Magic Box" is found) which are used in more than "170 institutions in 22 countries around the world" (quote from website). These solutions are very limitative and expensive - but people look at MOOs after looking at these and say: hmm... what's MOO about? Can it do anything? As for now, HTML tags typed into an object's content are already displayed on the web. To integrate the "Magic Box" would basically be to change the normal text-only "input" for descriptions (in enCore's object-editing forms) with the Box. You could add a small drop-down when detecting supported browsers that gives users the choice to use either interface. I'd also like to point out that copying word-documents into such editors almost replicates the document flawlessly, keeping bullets, formatting, paragraphs, etc. It would hence be a good answer to your previous inquery on the subject:) One last consideration: any way around, directly saving formatting elements into object description prevent them from being displayed nicely from text-only interfaces. What is interesting with "Structured Text" is that most formatting rules are designed with this in mind and would still provide natural looking content. On the other hand, HTML tags look pretty ugly by themselves, and would have to be stripped down for telnet users if there are any present (and if they are to deal frequently with these objects). - Alexandre Borgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennie Irvin" To: Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 9:11 AM Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text | Alex, | | But would such a dynamic HTML editor be limited in the platforms that could | access it? How would you integrate this dynamic HTML editor into the | description of objects? | | Lennie From afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu Sun May 25 02:31:46 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:46 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57A75BAD for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670EF1A2843 for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 19038-01-41 for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from itsfw02.uaa.alaska.edu (webmail.uaa.alaska.edu [137.229.138.128]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA56638A9C for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu by itsfw02.uaa.alaska.edu via smtpd (for ns0.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) with ESMTP; Sat, 24 May 2003 23:30:54 -0800 Received: from sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HFFM8900.VF9; Sat, 24 May 2003 23:31:21 -0800 From: "Jeff White" To: aborgia@videotron.ca Cc: Encore Message-ID: <1675711680.1168016757@sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu> Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: [encore] Re: "Magic Box" (was: Struct. Text) X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 842 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore would HTMLAREA installed on your server work for this, Lennie? It provides a few wysiwyg buttons/icons/actions within .textarea. boxes jeff ___________________________________ Jeff White | jeffwhite@uaa.alaska.edu University of Alaska Anchorage ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexandre Borgia Date: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:29 pm Subject: [encore] "Magic Box" (was: Struct. Text) > enCore users & Lennie, > > I think plain HTML is still the best "Structured Text" method > to use > since it's a full-featured web standard and can be used as it is > without any > translation. There seems to be a misunderstanding of the "Magic > Box" tool > since the point is not weither it is "Structured Text" or its > opposite - but > is really a front-end interface which can be used to edit > structured text > (and even if it is most easily working with HTML, it would be > possible to > create such an editor for John Williams' specifications). > > Such things as the "Magic Box" are *editors*, and yes: they > usuallyrequire Internet Explorer in order to work properly - but > once it has been > saved into the MOO it will create plain HTML files that are > viewable from > any browser, any platform. > > I think any tool that can ease students/users interaction is > great.Even if there are some of them really stuck with non-mainstream > technologies, is it worth restricting everyone else to a dull, > featurelessMOO? There seems to be a whole argumentation against > incorporating new > medias into the MOO. It's probably right not to distribute such > things with > the main enCore distribution, but developping these tools, and > promotingthem - letting teachers decide weither to use them or not > considering their > special requirements & availability of these to their students - > is a must. > > The fact is that we now face commercial solutions as > "SyllaBase" (the > software in which the "Magic Box" is found) which are used in more > than "170 > institutions in 22 countries around the world" (quote from > website). These > solutions are very limitative and expensive - but people look at > MOOs after > looking at these and say: hmm... what's MOO about? Can it do > anything? > > As for now, HTML tags typed into an object's content are already > displayed on the web. To integrate the "Magic Box" would > basically be to > change the normal text-only "input" for descriptions (in enCore's > object-editing forms) with the Box. You could add a small drop- > down when > detecting supported browsers that gives users the choice to use either > interface. > > I'd also like to point out that copying word-documents into > such editors > almost replicates the document flawlessly, keeping bullets, > formatting,paragraphs, etc. It would hence be a good answer to > your previous inquery > on the subject:) > > > One last consideration: any way around, directly saving formatting > elements into object description prevent them from being displayed > nicelyfrom text-only interfaces. What is interesting with > "Structured Text" is > that most formatting rules are designed with this in mind and > would still > provide natural looking content. On the other hand, HTML tags > look pretty > ugly by themselves, and would have to be stripped down for telnet > users if > there are any present (and if they are to deal frequently with these > objects). > > > - Alexandre Borgia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lennie Irvin" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 9:11 AM > Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text > > > | Alex, > | > | But would such a dynamic HTML editor be limited in the platforms > thatcould > | access it? How would you integrate this dynamic HTML editor > into the > | description of objects? > | > | Lennie > > > > > From afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu Sun May 25 02:31:48 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:48 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E25D5BDC for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF801A27DC for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 19008-01-39 for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from itsfw02.uaa.alaska.edu (sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu [137.229.138.128]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620B138A97 for ; Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu by itsfw02.uaa.alaska.edu via smtpd (for ns0.utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) with ESMTP; Sat, 24 May 2003 23:30:58 -0800 Received: from sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HFFM8E00.EFY for ; Sat, 24 May 2003 23:31:26 -0800 From: "Jeff White" Cc: Encore Message-ID: <103d4145b7.145b7103d4@sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu> Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 02:31:26 -0500 X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: [encore] Re: "Magic Box" (was: Struct. Text) X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 843 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: afjcw@uaa.alaska.edu List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore would HTMLAREA installed on your server work for this, Lennie? It provides a few wysiwyg buttons/icons/actions within .textarea. boxes jeff ___________________________________ Jeff White | jeffwhite@uaa.alaska.edu University of Alaska Anchorage ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexandre Borgia Date: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:29 pm Subject: [encore] "Magic Box" (was: Struct. Text) > enCore users & Lennie, > > I think plain HTML is still the best "Structured Text" method > to use > since it's a full-featured web standard and can be used as it is > without any > translation. There seems to be a misunderstanding of the "Magic > Box" tool > since the point is not weither it is "Structured Text" or its > opposite - but > is really a front-end interface which can be used to edit > structured text > (and even if it is most easily working with HTML, it would be > possible to > create such an editor for John Williams' specifications). > > Such things as the "Magic Box" are *editors*, and yes: they > usuallyrequire Internet Explorer in order to work properly - but > once it has been > saved into the MOO it will create plain HTML files that are > viewable from > any browser, any platform. > > I think any tool that can ease students/users interaction is > great.Even if there are some of them really stuck with non-mainstream > technologies, is it worth restricting everyone else to a dull, > featurelessMOO? There seems to be a whole argumentation against > incorporating new > medias into the MOO. It's probably right not to distribute such > things with > the main enCore distribution, but developping these tools, and > promotingthem - letting teachers decide weither to use them or not > considering their > special requirements & availability of these to their students - > is a must. > > The fact is that we now face commercial solutions as > "SyllaBase" (the > software in which the "Magic Box" is found) which are used in more > than "170 > institutions in 22 countries around the world" (quote from > website). These > solutions are very limitative and expensive - but people look at > MOOs after > looking at these and say: hmm... what's MOO about? Can it do > anything? > > As for now, HTML tags typed into an object's content are already > displayed on the web. To integrate the "Magic Box" would > basically be to > change the normal text-only "input" for descriptions (in enCore's > object-editing forms) with the Box. You could add a small drop- > down when > detecting supported browsers that gives users the choice to use either > interface. > > I'd also like to point out that copying word-documents into > such editors > almost replicates the document flawlessly, keeping bullets, > formatting,paragraphs, etc. It would hence be a good answer to > your previous inquery > on the subject:) > > > One last consideration: any way around, directly saving formatting > elements into object description prevent them from being displayed > nicelyfrom text-only interfaces. What is interesting with > "Structured Text" is > that most formatting rules are designed with this in mind and > would still > provide natural looking content. On the other hand, HTML tags > look pretty > ugly by themselves, and would have to be stripped down for telnet > users if > there are any present (and if they are to deal frequently with these > objects). > > > - Alexandre Borgia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lennie Irvin" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 9:11 AM > Subject: [encore] Re: Structured Text > > > | Alex, > | > | But would such a dynamic HTML editor be limited in the platforms > thatcould > | access it? How would you integrate this dynamic HTML editor > into the > | description of objects? > | > | Lennie > > > > > From aborgia@videotron.ca Mon May 26 22:07:19 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list encore); Mon, 26 May 2003 22:07:19 %z (CDT) Return-Path: X-Original-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Delivered-To: encore@nobel.utdallas.edu Received: from null-pmn.utdallas.edu (null-pmn.utdallas.edu [192.168.1.1]) by nobel.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AADE5BAD for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 22:07:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by null-pmn.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38CB1A0720 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 22:07:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx0.utdallas.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns0 [127.0.0.1:10024]) (amavisd-new) with LMTP id 02181-01-24 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 22:07:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from VL-MS-MR004.sc1.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by mx0.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3358B38A93 for ; Mon, 26 May 2003 22:07:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from alex ([24.200.68.72]) by VL-MS-MR004.sc1.videotron.ca (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.10 (built Jan 23 2003)) with SMTP id <0HFI00HHBZEGQL@VL-MS-MR004.sc1.videotron.ca> for encore@utdallas.edu; Mon, 26 May 2003 23:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 23:06:44 -0400 From: Alexandre Borgia Subject: [encore] HTMLArea To: Encore Message-id: <000701c323fd$01c67ff0$0200a8c0@alex> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <1675711680.1168016757@sentinel.uaa.alaska.edu> X-archive-position: 844 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu Errors-to: encore-bounce@utdallas.edu X-original-sender: aborgia@videotron.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-to: aborgia@videotron.ca List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: X-List-ID: X-list: encore Thank you Jeff for pointing out this great free tool! I really like the way it "snaps" on to existing TEXTAREA when under IE5.5 but keeps a normal input box under other browsers. Furthermore, the next release should be compatible with Mozilla-based browsers:) For those interested I made a fast implementation on MOOFrancais which I post below. I tested it under Netscape 6 & IE6 and it worked great. I also tried copying a complex Word document into it and it displayed flawlessly. Basically, you first have to download the distribution from: http://www.interactivetools.com/products/htmlarea/ and install it somewhere in enCore's web directory. You can then use the following function: $encore_web_utils:make_htmlarea(